Whedonesque Mobile : Comments on 9816 : Buffy versus Batman

Aaargh ! Talk about a tough one. Had to go with Batman in the end though (whatever Buffy came up with he'd just make some anti-that armour and kick her ass, he's beat up Superman FFS ;).

Saje | March 16, 14:05 CET

You voted for Batman? Come on, Buffy all the way! Batmans just a guy with toys, he's like one of the Trio.

I always think when watching Batman, using his vast wealth to fight crime, that if he just paid for a thousand extra cops he'd achieve a lot more. Maybe explains why I was never into comics...

zz9 | March 16, 14:19 CET

Exclusive dialogue from Frank Miller and Joss Whedon's "All Star Batman and Buffy" comic book.

Cordelia: "What is your childhood trauma?"
Batman: "I'm the goddamn Batman!".
Buffy: "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?"

Simon | March 16, 14:28 CET

Ultimate X-over X-travaganza ! Man, i'd pay literally money to read that.

Batman: 'I am the night ! I am the Batman !'
Xander: 'But you're not actually part bat, right ? Shouldn't you be, like, Bat-Costume-Man ?'
Batman: 'Aargh, it burns ! Must build anti-sarcasm armour'

But zz9, then he wouldn't get to throw all his toys out the pram every night. It's been said before but his big problem is he can't 'just get over it' like any normal person would, hence the childish revenge fantasy and dressing up (by which I mean noble crusade and necessary disguise since he's my favourite ongoing comics character ;).

There's actually a pretty good Batman story '24/7' by Devin Grayson, a sort of day-in-the-life, which shows him doing good as both Batman and Bruce Wayne (Wayne donates to charity, buys body armour for nearby police forces, offers impromptu college scholarships to employees etc., Batman's all with the Kapow ! and the Zonk ! but they're both fighting the good fight)

Saje | March 16, 14:57 CET

Batman would so do Buffy.

What? Oh. *fight!* I got nothing.

Caroline | March 16, 15:05 CET

Buffy would probably beat Batman rather easily. All in all, Batman doesn't have any super powers at all, he's basically just "Gadget Man". Buffy on the other hand has boat loads of super powers, excellent battle instincts and tons of experience. And gadgets in general doesn't have a great track record against Buffy anyway. So I'm sorry Batman, but you're toast.

Djungelurban | March 16, 15:19 CET

Okay, only being a minor comic fan in passing and not actually having read a comic outside of Fray in a very long time, i have to ask this.

Batman beat Superman? How the hell is that happening?!? Admittedly my knowledge on this topic is limited but isn't Superman, well, super and stuff?

As for the actual poll, i went with Buffy. Why? Nicer ass. Ludicrous polls allow for ludicrous reasoning.

The Watcher | March 16, 15:50 CET

Do the astronauts have weapons?

janeway216 | March 16, 16:03 CET

Let me first say that I'm no big fan of Batman, but I gotta give this one to him.

True, he has no superpowers to speak off, but has two things going for him. One, he's very smart. Buffy's smart too, but face it, it's not on the same level. Why do you think Batman is in the same echelon as Superman and the likes despite being only human?

Second, he's being doing this a long time. Buffy has what, 7+ years? I'm not saying she won't give him a run for him money, but after fighting her a while, he'd have figured out her weakness, her blood type, heck, even her favourite food.

Batman beat Superman? How the hell is that happening?!? Admittedly my knowledge on this topic is limited but isn't Superman, well, super and stuff?

This happened in The Dark Knight Returns, one of the defining Batman moments in comic-dom. It's well worth a read. :)

NickSeng | March 16, 16:16 CET

Years ago Superman gave Batman a piece of Kryptonite so that should Supes ever go off the rails he knows Batman (the person he probably trusts most in the DC universe) can take him down. Recently (in the 'Hush' storyline) Batman used a Kryptonite ring to kick the big fella around after he fell under the influence of mind controlling drugs.

A few years back there was a great story in JLA, 'Tower of Babel' in which Batman's secret files on the Justice League (supposedly his friends and allies) fell into the wrong hands. He basically had plans and devices to take down each of DC's big hitters (Superman, Wonder-Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern etc.) should they ever go rogue. He's a strategic and tactical genius, extremely strong and agile, a borderline psychotic obsessive and has all the gadgets, money etc. Buffy would be no match (except on the arse scale ;).

And most memorably, and not strictly in continuity, as NickSeng says, in 'Dark Knight Returns' Batman gives Big Blue a right kicking, again with the help of Kryptonite, partly out of anger, partly to execute a long-term plan and partly to show Superman what it's like for us mere mortals in an effort to get him on the side of the common person rather than the side of the government, well worth a read is right ;)

(this is like being 10 again and far more fun than the data processing that adult me is meant to be doing. Next up 'Kirk vs Picard' ;).

Saje | March 16, 16:39 CET

Ah, it's always good to start the workday seeing others slack off. And it would be Kirk all the way. No contest.

Lioness | March 16, 16:44 CET

Heavens to betsy, no contest.

For those who don't read the Justice League comics: a storyline from a couple years back featured a villain taking down each member of the League, methodically, one by one. Eventually, they find out the reason said villain is able to do this... is that they stole Batman's contingency plans for defeating the League. He kept files on *how to defeat his friends and allies* in case they ever turned bad (which happens a lot, it turns out.) *This* is how his mind works.

Yes, he's a world-class martial artist and athlete. Yes, he's a billionaire with unlimited access to advanced technology. But the reason he wins so often is that he's one of the smartest minds on the planet, backing up those other formidable resources. Buffy, despite her other attributes, may be clever, but much like Hellboy, her tactics often devolve into running up to the Big Bad and punching it.

Sure, she's stronger. But Batman is *always* fighting baddies more powerful than himself, and always manages a way to come out on top. I can't see any reason Ms. Summers would be any different.

PMMJ | March 16, 17:08 CET

This is too much fun to be legal ;-). Although I'm sure Batman could take Buffy if he had enough time to prepare, in a single one-on-one fight, I think Buffy would win, since his intellect and stategic skills wouldn't help him much there.

The next one is more difficult though: The emperor (Star Wars) vs Megatron. Atlthough, come to think of it, the emperor could probably just use the force to fling our big metallic friend around and basically slice him into parts using his lightsaber. So I guess I'm going with the Sith on this one. Next! ;-)

GVH | March 16, 17:19 CET

Batman.

Cave men win. Of course the cave men win.

Kind of ironic, actually!

Chris inVirginia | March 16, 17:26 CET

Yeah I have to say, Buffy wouldn't last very long. Gadgets or not, Batman is a tactical genius not to mention the most skilled fighter in the world. Even without time to prepare, he could evade her, use her strength against her and have her chasing shadows for the whole fight before being taken down without much ceremony.

Andy Dufresne | March 16, 17:48 CET

Chris In Virginia
Even though he has a Bat Cave, I would see Batman as "astronaut" (science & technology), Buffy as (ha ha) "caveman" (first slayer)

redfern | March 16, 18:01 CET

BTW, did you see the video on her character page? Fun.

I dunno. I get that Batman is smarter than half the JLA put together. But Buffy has defeated a God, using a combination of clever strategy, brute force, her friends , and her willingness to sacrifice herself (yeah that's right, I said sacrifice! ;-). She has the total package. Spiritus, Animus, Sophus, Manus.

Basically, I'm assuming Batman gets to bring his gadgets, so Buffy gets to bring the Scoobies. Game over. =)

jam2 | March 16, 18:03 CET

Well, does Buffy get Scooby help? It has always been her friends that set her apart... Bats, even the Robins don't like him. One on one though, that is Dark Knight territory.. course he would probably end up sleeping with her, got that whole nocturnal thing going on.

rockchalkwatcher | March 16, 18:11 CET

Yes, redfern, hence with the "ironic"!

Chris inVirginia | March 16, 18:31 CET

Sorry Chris - brain not working. They are pumping 12 feet of water out of the basement next door and we are all going mad..

redfern | March 16, 18:36 CET

Kirk vs Picard? Not a clue. Kirk in a fight, Picard in a war of words? I've seen about three different Star Trek movies so i'm going off very little info here. Picard was in the best of the Trek movies i've seen though, if that counts for anything. First Contact was really good.

Now, if you had said Capt. Mal vs John Crichton, that i could answer. It's a close call but i'd probably give the edge to Mal, although John can definately hold his own in a fight.

Yep, just like being 10 again, hehe.

The Watcher | March 16, 18:43 CET

Picture it: Buffy and the Bats fighting in an alley. Batman uses all his various gadgets, wounds Buffy and gets in a couple good hits. The fight ranges from the alley to a fire escape to the rooftops. BUT, he's still human and gets tired and Buffy has the demon power and the healing power on her side. I see the whole thing ending when Buffy grabs a chunk of something metal and lobs it at Batman's face, the only part of him not covered in Bat suit.

I'd like to see a Questionable Affiliation fight between Faith and the cylon Six from Battlestar Galactica. Winner? The viewing audience.

Selannia | March 16, 18:49 CET

Simon - "I'm the goddamn Batman!" is now officially one of my favorite sentences ever! ;)

Tycho | March 16, 18:55 CET

I've been planning to write this match-up for years. I know EXACTLY how the fight would go. But I need someone to draw it first. (And a leeetle free time. And two rival companies to sign off on it.)

Honestly, I don't understand how there are people who HAVEN'T thought about this for years. They're called PRIORITIES, people...

And both characters have extensive, almost ridiculously large scoobyposses. This will not affect the outcome of the fight, it just means Willow can spend some time crushing on Oracle.

Good times...

joss | March 16, 19:13 CET

I'd like to see a Questionable Affiliation fight between Faith and the cylon Six from Battlestar Galactica

'Ooh, there could be oil of some kind involved' ;)

I don't think Bats would let a fight last long enough for him to tire. When he realised Buffy had supernatural powers he'd either tactically withdraw ("Run Away ! Run Away !") to build some Anti-small-blonde-girl-with-superpowers armour or alter his strategy to compensate. Bearing in mind that comics Batman does not kill ever, I doubt he'd wound Buffy beyond cuts and abrasions but he could certainly restrain her (strong as she is Buffy can still be held by chains or thick/numerous conventional ropes as seen in a few episodes).

And I think it'd have to be Kirk. Picard is probably a technically better fighter but Kirk (like Spike) is a born brawler, not to mention a bit beefier so, unless Picard despatched him pretty quickly, size and motivation would tell (Kirk has to be more 'up for it' than rational, enlightened Picard). In a debate though, Picard hands down. A battle of hair would probably be closer than first appearances might suggest ;).

ETA: Joss you have to write this. Even if you use the Sweden pseudonym for legal reasons, at least we'll still know it's you ;). And, yeah, Oracle, clearly Willow's type but how about a bad-girl phase and maybe a Willow/Huntress pairing ?

[ edited by Saje on 2006-03-16 17:20 ]

Saje | March 16, 19:15 CET

But Joss, who takes out Nightwing - Xander? Giles?

catalyst2 | March 16, 19:15 CET

Buffy as (ha ha) "caveman"

Only if she's had too much beer.

<sigh> I would dearly love to forget that "Beer Bad" even exists. </sigh>

MissKittysMom | March 16, 19:17 CET

I've been planning to write this match-up for years.

Years ago you joked about it and as a result SFX magazine printed that it was officially going to happen. If you can get a Batman/Judge Dredd face off, a Batman/Buffy one could happen. Or alternatively Judge Dredd versus Buffy.

Simon | March 16, 19:18 CET

But I love Beer Bad - funny, Willow/Parker, Buffy drunk - what more could you want?

There's even some sub-text about what it would be like to operate from the id only - and how Buffy's slayerness over-rules even that!

catalyst2 | March 16, 19:21 CET

I LOVE Beer Bad, too, catalyst2!

And so does Cindy, my latest convert, who picked up Season 5 from me last night. (This is a woman who, about 3 weeks ago, said to me, "Isn't Buffy a silly kids show?" She was raving about Restless.)

I love that Batman is the astronaut in a cave and Buffy is the cavewoman in the light! Beautiful dichotomy!

I think Dawn would mega-crush on Robin, and that really gives me bellyrumbles!

Chris inVirginia | March 16, 19:31 CET

Yeah, the Willow/Parker aspect was great (even better than Riley punching him out), and I get what you're saying about the id. The thing that bugs me about the episode is that the metaphor is so painfully obvious and heavy-handed.

Even if the episode did get an Emmy nomination.

MissKittysMom | March 16, 19:33 CET

Buffy/Bananaman?

Just me then, huh?

The Watcher | March 16, 19:33 CET

Yeah, I liked that element catalyst2, when Cave-Buffy goes back to rescue Parker. Doesn't matter how many layers of civilization you peel away, she's just good to the bone.

I like it as an episode as well. Always have (and not just because SMG looks so good with the crinkly hair. Down id, down, baad id ;).

ETA: Or Buffy vs Dangermouse ? I think Willow would adore Penfold (not in the Oracle way though).

[ edited by Saje on 2006-03-16 17:36 ]

Saje | March 16, 19:34 CET

Chris inVirginia - if anything was going to persuade someone that BtVS was not a silly kids show, Restless would have to be high on the list of eps that would do it! I have watched Restless so many times and yet every time I watch it, I see something new.

catalyst2 | March 16, 19:36 CET

"Or Buffy vs Dangermouse ? I think Willow would adore Penfold (not in the Oracle way though)."

I'm all for it, if only for the possibility of a meeting of minds between Giles and Colonel K.

The Watcher | March 16, 19:40 CET

it just means Willow can spend some time crushing on Oracle

...

I'll be in my bunk. :)

NickSeng | March 16, 19:40 CET

The sublime beauty of Restless is that even things you've seen before will seem new again. It's the resonance; every watching pulls you deeper into the fabric of the Buffyverse mythology.

Unfortunately, that's also why the episode doesn't work very well unless you've seen a lot of other episodes. It simply can't stand alone. In terms of converting the non-believers, that's a problem with a lot of the great episodes.

MissKittysMom | March 16, 19:43 CET

I�m pretty sure Giles could beat Alfred� unless he gets knocked in the head.

Pliny | March 16, 19:48 CET

Agree, MissKittysMom, which is why I ALWAYS start at the beginning with the first 2 episodes...there's great exposition--we find out right away who these people are, what their respective situations are, and how they interweave...and a corking good story that, right out of the chute, inverts and reinvents genre storytelling in a brash, amusing and exciting fashion.

Chris inVirginia | March 16, 19:53 CET

Scooby help? You're kidding right?

Xander would want Batman's autograph.
Willow would want to discuss the physics of his utility belt, and how he packs so much in such small spaces.
Oz would want to jam with him.
Tara would stand there starry-eyed and stammer a lot.
Anya would seduce him over the nearest table.
Dawnie would jump up and down and make high pitched squeaky noises, probably chanting something like "omigodomigodomigod."
Spike would offer him beer and cheetos.
Giles would wipe his glasses with a cloth and argue that Batman's an urban myth who doesn't exist, while Batman stood there before him.

Buffy actually fight someone like Batman? You guys obviously didn't watch the same tv series I did. Buffy would meet Batman in a dark alley one night where they'd almost come to blows but then there'd be a cryptic dialogue between them that was suspenseful and ripe with sexual tension. Then the next morning Buffy Summers would notice a guy named Bruce Wayne who's a new student or recently moved into the neighborhood and she'd find him annoying or putoffy but at the same time be strangely drawn to him. After about three to seven episodes of sexual tension and close calls where he almost finds out she's the slayer and she almost finds out he's the crusader, there'd be an out of the ordinary episode around Sweeps which would force them to communicate in an extraordinary manner and they learn about each other's secrets and this causes much angst and frustration between them, that may lead to them either getting in the sack or pulling on each other's ponytails and evading the sack, depending on which of the two Whedon determined to be A) Funnier and B) more stressful and angsty for Buffy's sake.

Now if Buffy the Vampire Slayer happened into Smallville's reality, she'd definitely beat the crap out of Clark Kent, just cuz that show's a wuss.

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2006-03-16 17:58 ]

ZachsMind | March 16, 19:54 CET

Wou know what about be rather interesting? There was an elsewheres trilogy ("Bloodstorm", Crimson Mist", and "Red Rain" though probably not in that order) where Batman became a vampire hunter and then a vampire himself.

So why not vampire Batman vs Buffy?

On a side note, things to add to the list of reasons why I love the Whedon: I now have the most pleasant image in my head of Willow and Oracle flirting.

war_machine | March 16, 20:00 CET

So why not vampire Batman...

Wasn't that a show called "Angel"?

Hee!

Selannia | March 16, 20:06 CET

I've been planning to write this match-up for years. I know EXACTLY how the fight would go.

Go on, give us a small hint? Surely if anyone knows who'd win, it's Joss...

Mehitabel | March 16, 20:08 CET

ZachsMind, are you saying that there's a connection between Bruce Wayne and Batman?

MissKittysMom | March 16, 20:10 CET

I don�t think the question of Buffy v. Batman is all that simple. Are we talking about Seasons 1-3 Buffy or Seasons 4-7 Buffy? I think Seasons 1-3 Buffy could easily kick Batman�s ass while Seasons 4-7 Buffy would have a little more trouble. Why? Listen to my unquestionably impervious logic.

Seasons 1-3 Buffy kicked infinitely more butt than Angel did in those three seasons, but then after Angel left, Angel kicked infinitely more butt than Seasons 4-7 Buffy. I�m pretty sure Angel the Series Angel could go medieval on Batman. Since Seasons 1-3 Buffy was much more powerful than Angel in Buffy Seasons 1-3, Seasons 1-3 Buffy could also therefore kick Batman�s butt. Despite beating Glory, Seasons 4-7 Buffy never seemed to kick as much butt as Angel did in his own series. So, I would think Seasons 4-7 Buffy probably would lose. However Season 6 Buffy could definitely beat Batman in a glooming contest.

Okay, this doesn�t even make sense to me anymore. I�m sorry. I�m still sleeping. I need coffee.

Pliny | March 16, 20:10 CET

So why not vampire Batman vs Buffy?

Uh... cuz then you'd have a retread of the first episode of season five. Not much diff there. Instead of a mansion with a cave underneath it, mysteriously appearing in Sunnydale, it'd be a manor with a cave underneath it. Instead of wolves and dead people, you'd have bats and crazy people from nearby Arkham Asylum.

Maybe Xander wouldn't eat bugs, but instead flap his arms and say "holy bloodbank!" a lot. I don't see much of a difference than that.

ZachsMind | March 16, 20:11 CET

...what about Dark Knight versus Dark Willow? She would so rake him over the hot coals. Rip off Batty's skin with a mere whim. He'd try to talk reason to her and she'd make snarky comments. That'd be a battle worth watching.

ZachsMind | March 16, 20:15 CET

Wait a minute, Bruce Wayne knows Batman ? Where does Glory fit in ?

Saje | March 16, 20:18 CET

Bator!

Chris inVirginia | March 16, 20:18 CET

"are you saying that there's a connection between Bruce Wayne and Batman?"

Yes MissKittysMom, there is a Super Friends.

ZachsMind | March 16, 20:19 CET

ZachsMind, I think that an encounter between Anya and Batman would involve her asking him why he choose a bat because bunnies are much more frightening.

That said, Batman meeting a vengeance demon could have seriously disastrous results for all of mankind. He would probably inadvertently wipe out half of mankind and then have an angst-filled struggle to reverse it.

Pliny | March 16, 20:37 CET

I'm still scratching my head over that Godzilla vs. King Kong match. OK, 80ft. ape takes on a 400ft. lizard that happens to breath radioactive fire. I don't want to start a grudge here, but I'll lay a 'C' note that the big, cold-blooded guy has that monkey's uncle.

And, of course Buffy would win. To date, Batman has only delt with those low lives such as catwoman, joker, riddler....the list runs on. But the Slayer would leave the bat genius running in circles. In one simple term, Buffy's friends would confuse our poor caped crusader into a babbling idiot.

(In a graveyard, late at night)

Buffy: "Well, hello tall, dark, and...whatever. Are we a little lost?"
Batman: "No worries, young lady. I'm here to protect you."
Buffy: "Oh...(snickers). So, what sort of demon are you? Giles may want it for his book..eh...books."
Willow: "Ewww, Buffy, whose your new friend?!"
Batman: "Stand back, young lady! There's fiends in the night!"
Buffy: "Yeah, we kinda' had that picture, night owl."
Xander: "Buff! That vamp just ran...Whoa! It's Batman!!"
Batman: "At your service and protection."
Buffy: "Batwhoy?"
Giles: "Buffy!"
Buffy: "Great, compound another mystery."
Willow: "Xander said he was bat guy."
Batman/Xander: "Batman."
Giles: "??????"
Buffy: "Ex'plainy this bat part?
Giles: "I thought you were a myth?"
Willow: "I didn't mean bat in a bad way...hpmm."
Buffy: "Time to call it a day....or night, actually. Lets go, Willow."
Willow: "Do you think I made a bad impression, Buffy?"
Buffy: "I get enough third degree from Dawn. Call it a night and lets watch Gilmore girls drinking warm rum."
Willow: "Done! Hey, did you see that cape? Nice!"
Buffy: "I was looking at his boots....I want!"

And, that is all.

Madhatter | March 16, 20:39 CET

Who wins a fight between Buffy and Batman? That's easy, Ditka.

But seriously, Batman mops the floor with the Buffster. I mean come on, its universally understood that Batman beats Superman and anyone that can take Superman can certainly take the likes of Yoda, Buffy or even The Beyonder. (Ugh, did I just bring up The Beyonder? jeesh)

However, by far, Buffy's fight would be the most entertaining thanks to our pal Joss.

alexreager | March 16, 20:42 CET

I forgot to ask the most important question...

Who wins a fight between Joss and Quentin?

alexreager | March 16, 20:46 CET

probably inadvertently wipe out half of mankind

Yeah, but only the naughty half. Come to think of it, half sounds a bit optimistic ;). Besides

* adopts stentorian voice *

The Batman does not wish ! He does !

Saje | March 16, 20:47 CET

Who wins a fight between Buffy and Batman? That's easy, Ditka.

Don't you mean Chuck Norris?

Selannia | March 16, 20:58 CET

Batman's a Ninja. Buffy only knows the barest of formal martial arts (although she is strong with the shove-fu). Unlike most of Buffy's opponents, Batman is actually trained to roll with the punches, and he gives as good as he takes. Besides that Buffy has never been good at psychological warfare or long-range combat, so if Batman pulls out some hit and run tricks, Buffy will fire the crossbow once and be trapped.

Now if Buffy calls in Angel for backup, it's closer, because Angel, being sociopathic, has some idea of the way Batman operates...
But so does Xander.

Great, now I'm imagining Faith and Willow joining the Birds of Prey...
Oh my.

[ edited by Anusien on 2006-03-16 19:15 ]

Anusien | March 16, 21:13 CET

Willow needs to be flirting with Oracle. Joss, you seriously need to write this. Seriously.

But...Batman would destroy Buffy in a fight. No matter how powerful and clever Buffy is, Batman has had years and years of experience, and is one of the world's leading geniuses. He's a tactical expert, and a master strategist who would be able to find Buffy's weaknesses within about five seconds. I mean, he frigging kicked the crap out of Superman and then told him to remember the day that he handed him his ass. That's pretty badass, right? He would completely confuse the poor girl and then conk her on the head with a batarang after toying with her for a while.

It'd probably end like this:

Buffy: So, what's with the cape? Is there some kind of complex--?
Batman: Stop fooling around, you silly girl. I am Batman. I protect this--
Buffy: So this means you also took classes in corny James Bond villain speechifying?
*agitated pause*
Batman: GOTHAM IS MY CITY! STAY OUT OF MY CITY!
*FWAP!* *CONK!* *UNCONSCIOUSNESS!*

Spider-Man and Buffy would be a much closer fight.

alexreager, we don't need Joss and Quentin to be fighting. I'm talkin' 'bout peace and harmony! 'Cuz seriously...they need to make Serenity Fiction or Reservoir Vampires or something. We need to promote their relationship in a peaceful, healthy manner. Because the world would be a better place then.

UnpluggedCrazy | March 16, 21:25 CET

Angel versus Blade. There's a fight I'd pay to see.

Simon | March 16, 21:41 CET

Although I would rather there not be a reason for Joss and Quentin to fight anymore than I can see it as being very logical for Buffy and Batman to fight, I have no doubt Joss would win hands down. On both sides we have quality, imagination, creativity etc. but on Joss's side we have quantity as well. As much as we all are constantly saying we don't have enough Joss, it is only because we are beyond greedy. Look at poor Quentin's fans, is it 4 movies and an episode of CSI at this point? Nope, Joss's truckloads of quality stuff in various genre's really is not very fair to pit against anybody that I can come up with right off the bat(man. Yep, still on topic.)

Oh, and let's not slow Joss down by having him working with anyone that is not as prolific as he is. I am much too greedy for that.

Buffy vs. Batman? Can't we all just get along? There aren't enough bad guys out there that the good guys need to fight each other? ;-)

newcj | March 16, 22:02 CET

As people have mentioned Batman is quick to assess his opponents weaknesses and act on them. I could see Batman going after Xander, Dawn and any other non-magical or non-supernatural friends of Buffy and using them against her. Or possibily figuring out how to remove Buffy's powers from her (doesn't matter if that's not possible Batman might find a way). It wouldn't come down to an all out fight (which if it did Buffy would win) as Batman would find some other way to beat her and win. As others have mentioned Batman has many times taken down Superman and so I figure he would find a way to take down Buffy.

Of course, having read many superhero cross-overs, Batman might beat Buffy but that's just until they realize they are on the same side and they team up and together beat some villian or another. :)

Matt_Fabb | March 16, 22:07 CET

Angel versus Blade. There's a fight I'd pay to see.

Whoa. My mind just got blown.

Selannia | March 16, 22:17 CET

newcj, I'm sure Joss is laughing his ass off reading this link.

And Simon, Angel vs. Blade? Oh, please.

And before anyone peeks the word, yes, I was a child glued to the television in the late 60's with 'Batman'. Wonderful show. Should see more "Bonks" and "Wham" in this link. OK, I'll hush my bitching.

Madhatter | March 16, 22:22 CET

Madhatter: Imagine Willow bonks Oracle. Happy?

Angel versus Blade, I have to go with Blade. I really like Angel, but I don't think his brand of psychological warfare (as Angelus, anyway) would work on Blade, and Blade is definitely faster and better trained than Angel, especially on a blade. None in the Buffyverse seem all that good at weapons combat, which I can forgive for sheer snarkiness.

Anusien | March 16, 22:36 CET

I don't know which would win, but I know Buffy would definitely throw him a bit by mocking his super hero tights with the underwear on the outside.

Grace | March 16, 22:52 CET

Buffy wins. Batman, when you strip away his outer "super hero" layers, remains a neurotic, perhaps even psychotic man stuck in the tramatic events of his childhood. He fights evil from the perspective of personal vengance ("it's not justice but vengance that we serve"...somebody said that I recall). Buffy fights, driven by the innate goodness of her soul; she finds a way to defeat even the most powerful enemy and she is willing to pay the ultimate price without reservation. In the end, she would find a way to defeat Batman. And lets get real...I've never met a stupid god, Glory by definition must be more intelligent than even Batman, and The First Evil more the master at psychological warfare than the Bat could ever be!

[ edited by Calledon on 2006-03-16 21:01 ]

Calledon | March 16, 22:59 CET

Batman gets this hands down. I can't believe there's even a question about this. Batman wins. That's what he does. That's ALL he does. His "deal" is that he uses his brains to find a way to defeat his opponents. A fact that has been completely overlooked in every film (even the otherwise spectacular Batman Begins) is that he is the "World's Greatest Detective". Superpowers or not, Bats finds a way, ANY way, to take down even the most SUPER of superpowered foes. Even Superman recognizes this fact, making it explicit in the not-to-distant past by giving Bruce the kryptonite ring he'd taken from Lex Luthor, explaining that Batman was the one hero clark would trust to do what needed to be done (to be ABLE to do what needed to be done) if Superman ever needed to be taken down for some reason.

Buffy's good. Batman is the PEAK.

Haunt | March 16, 23:40 CET

I don't think Batman would have to beat her physically. You have to give him the edge in intelligence so I imagine he would be able to trap or incapacitate Buffy fairly easily.

Buffy could always fall in love with Batman. She's had some success in that area.

IMMORTAL | March 17, 00:16 CET

Never underestimate the Bats' inability to stay invincible around a sexy, sexy woman. (Selena Kyle, yo!) And like IMMORTAL says, this is an area where Buffy can really capitalize. So, have to give Buffy the first several rounds, just based on the B-Man's needing to have his brains bashed in 6 or 7 times by a female before he finally gets that she's "the kind you don't take home to mother." ;-)

And speaking of Selena -- Selena vs. Faith! Er, I'll be in my bunk. ;-)

billz | March 17, 00:46 CET

I wonder why Spike vs. Angel isn't on that list. Now that would definately get some debate going on in this site.

Just for future reference, I pick Spike.

SpikeBad | March 17, 02:15 CET

3 words: Buffy vs. Kitty

Arielle | March 17, 02:25 CET

Well, we've seen Spike vs Angel several times (Spike won the big one in Destiny). These theoretical ones are much more fun. That Spider-Man vs Optimus Prime round would be a fantastic show...

jam2 | March 17, 02:33 CET

Clem vs. Anybody.

Because you can never have enough Clem!

Chris inVirginia | March 17, 02:49 CET

Depends on if Batman has prep-time. Come against Batman unawares, he loses. But as decades of comics have proven, if Batman has prep-time, he could defeat God himself.

NightTraveler | March 17, 03:03 CET

If Buffy gets through to the final, she'll face The Joker, Agent Smith, The Emperor (or Senator Palpatine to his friends) or Megatron.

I reckon she could take the Joker no problem. The other three may pose problems. Especially Megatron. He could squish her with his foot.

Simon | March 17, 03:09 CET

Please, Buffy would so defeat Batman. The girl has defeated a hell-god, the government and the root of all evil. Like she's gonna be scared of guy who plays dress-up and goes all emo every spare second he has. Not even a competition.

dshea | March 17, 03:14 CET

Buffy would win. She would get Holden Webster to psychoanalyse Batman who finally deals with his childhood trauma. Batty-no-longer gives up the cape, armour and wearing his undies on the outside and becomes an accountant instead. Case closed.

Poster Boy | March 17, 03:57 CET

He could squish her with his foot.

As classic smackdowns go, that line reminds of Bambi Meets Godzilla.

Pure artistry.

MissKittysMom | March 17, 04:05 CET

She would get Holden Webster to psychoanalyse Batman...

Amusing, but unfortunately Buffy dusted Holden. Too bad, really. She wasted an obviously invaluable asset. Impulsive Buffy... stake first, worry about consequences later.

No psychoanalysis for Bats this time, B. Time for the smackdown. ;)

Haunt | March 17, 04:18 CET

If Buffy gets through to the final, she'll face The Joker, Agent Smith, The Emperor (or Senator Palpatine to his friends) or Megatron.

I reckon she could take the Joker no problem. The other three may pose problems. Especially Megatron. He could squish her with his foot.

Okay, taking into account that neither Optimus Prime or Magneto are on that remaining list who exactly is going to really stand against Megatron and win?

Simon's squish issue pretty much applies to anyone that might still end up facing him. Done deal.

The Watcher | March 17, 05:04 CET

I love Buffy but Batman would take her down easy. I know Buffy has defeated all these Demons as well as the first evil, but Batman would have smoked all thier butts too. Plus he does it all without the scooby gang.

Saskbuffyfan | March 17, 05:21 CET

Haunt - only a wee problem about Holden's dusted status. Buffy can get Willow to bring him back a la Wolfram & Hart/Darla - it's for a good cause. The world needs more accountants and fewer Bat guys! ;)

Poster Boy | March 17, 05:44 CET

Buffy always wins in the end.

Bat who? :)

TwisTz | March 17, 05:55 CET

Batman always wins in the end.

Vampire slayer who?

Saskbuffyfan | March 17, 06:13 CET

Simon, Angel vs. Blade...my mind is abuzz. I don't think Blade's much in the smarts arena, though. Then again, I've read few of the comics and am basically basing this around Wesley Snipes' Blade.

From what I know, though, Blade would just be all over the place with a sword and shit, and Angel, though sometimes equally irrational, would find some way around the problem and use it to his advantage. Great thing about the Buffyverse: None of the characters play fairly. Ever.

It'd end with Blade impaled on his own sword.

UnpluggedCrazy | March 17, 06:19 CET

So if Buffy and Batman are fighting, who went bad? Because in both universes, the good guy always wins. Therefore whoever went bad, they lost.

vera | March 17, 06:22 CET

Batman, without any question in my mind. He's spent more time training to fight than Buffy- heck, he's spent more time training to fight than Buffy's spent avoiding training!

kishi | March 17, 07:54 CET

You can think of plausible reasons why Buffy would win and plausible reasons why Batman would win. And not necessarily have Batman resort to using Bat-Slayer-Repellent or something like that. Batman could throw Batarangs at Buffy all day long and she'd dodge 'em. But Buffy couldn't outsmart Batman. It really comes down to time. If Batman has time to think, he'll be able to pull something (reasonable) out of his utility belt and use the resources around him to take care of her. Although, Buffy as also shown a gift for resourcefulness. And not just her finding a convenient chunk of wood (even though she apparently lives in the wood capital of the world). But if it's just a brawl and Buffy is relentless, she wins. She's stronger, has more stamina, and heals faster than Batman (I would also argue she's quicker). It depends on how you write the secenario. Does Batman have time to think or not?

A couple of months ago, Joss mentioned a Batman/Buffy crossover. So this just might happen. Hasn't there been a DC/Dark Horse crossover before? Batman is DC's crossover whore, he's appeared in other companies' comics.

batmarlowe | March 17, 08:05 CET

I'd kill to see a Joss penned Batman/Buffy cross over although I'm slightly wondering how Batman exists in Buffy's world, since Xander undoubtedly has comics on him;-) But that's nitpicking...

Personally I gotta give it to Bats too. The thing with Batman is: He. Finds. A. Way. If he even slightly has the time to realize what Buffy's strengths are, he'll take her down. And she doesn't really have the focus or mental discipline he has. Still, it'd be interesting to see.

Oh and Wolverine and Dr Doom are out? Please.

Oh and about Buffy and Batman's posses...well Bats has an impressive bunch (Face it, the current Batgirl could take out the original Scoobies by herself in about 20 seconds) but technically Buffy's current 'posse' consists of a few thousand Slayers. So....there's a thought.

EdDantes | March 17, 08:49 CET

Angel versus Blade. There's a fight I'd pay to see.

Simon, add me to the "oooh" party on that one. That's a fight that's got my inner geek up and running...

Vera, more than one comic book crossover has been built around find outlandish reasons for heroes to fight each other. Usually 'cause of mistaken identity or mistrust about motives. Or sometimes just because certain characters like to punch things.

Ultimately, as far as the Bats vs. Buffy question goes, I've got to go with Batman. EdDantes summed it up correctly: "He. Finds. A. Way."

RambleOn623 | March 17, 09:07 CET

Oh, gosh! We have some really smart minds in the room. I bid you welcome. Hope I can learn a thing or three.

Madhatter | March 17, 09:49 CET

"3 words: Buffy vs. Kitty"

Fantastico? Oh Kitty Fantastico would so kill both Buffy and Batty.

I tell ya guys you'd never see the battle between Buff and Bats. They'd so end up in the sack. Now, Buffy versus Wonder Woman is more feasible, because they have dramatically different fashion tastes, and they'd both easily piss each other off. They'd just have to be in the same room like two minutes and they'd be at each other's throats.

BS: Uh, you that Amazonian?
WW: Excuse me?
BS: (laughs) what kinda outfit is that? Do you have to salute every time you look in a mirror?
WW: Your insensitive carriage and demeanor indicates it be rare you are not staring like Narcissus in a looking glass!
BS: Dawnie said she opened the bathroom door once and accidently caught Xander wanking off to a comic of you.
WW: How dare you insult me!
BS: Those boots are so seventies. You need a make over.
WW: I will not tolerate such insolence!
BS: Get used to it. And those boobs? What, you got an anti-grav bra or something? When you run, do they bop you in the face a lot?
WW: I shall rend that forked tongue right out of your gaping maw!
BS: I'd like to see you try!
WW: Oh I shall do more than try, you harlot!
BS: Bitch!
WW: Usurper!
BS: Wanna-be!

[[insert fight scene here.]]

ZachsMind | March 17, 10:06 CET

You're on a run, ZacksMind. Please continue.

Madhatter | March 17, 11:06 CET

ZachsMind, please script a Buffy/Wonder Woman crossover.

UnpluggedCrazy | March 17, 12:00 CET

This is the nerdiest thread I have ever read. I mean that in a good way.

Buffy wins, of course. Slayer Strength, people!

Joss beats Quentin, but it'd be close.

The Devil's Robot | March 17, 12:09 CET

Well at this time of writing, it's a tie. 50/50. Too close to call. I love my voting cliches.

Simon | March 17, 12:25 CET

Thanks ZachsMind. That was hot. :)

Tmas | March 17, 13:10 CET

Calledon said

I've never met a stupid god, Glory by definition must be more intelligent than even Batman, and The First Evil more the master at psychological warfare than the Bat could ever be!

As much as there are some great reasons to favor Buffy, this ain't one of 'em. Glory was an idiot and the First evil wasted 99.9% of its psych warfare possibilities in favor of relying on SuperPreacher and the WonderVamps... not a mark of intelligence.

Really, intelligence and evilness seem to be a rare combo in TV gods... the only one I can think of is Ares, and he's debatable (on both intelligence and evilness).

As to the main question, it really depends, imo, on which Batman we're looking at here. The original gray tights wearing weeney bat would have to be having the day of his century to get a single WOMP on the Slayer and his utility belt sadly did not include BAT STRENGTH SARCASM REPELLANT. However, the Dark Knight of the modern era would have to be having the worst day of his life to lose to Buffy. Instincts she may have, but she proved several times her strategic thought process is pitiful.

Then of course there was the period where Batman wasn't Batman... I forget offhand the name of the guy who stepped in for Bruce (mostly cuz I was seriously unimpressed) - I think it was Jean Paul or Jeanne Pierre or something... He could fight well enough, and he basically walked around in a tank, so Slayer strength would not be a problem. Still, I think his arrogance would bite him in the ass and give the contest to Buffy.

And we won't even get into Buffy vs the ClooneyBat, cuz that would be like setting the Slayer against Princess Barbie...

[ edited by Bayne on 2006-03-17 11:20 ]

Bayne | March 17, 13:17 CET

Did anyone else notice that Buffy is the only female on the poll (except for Ripley, shamefully defeated in the first round)? Seems like Joss' intention of creating a female pop-culture icon superhero was not only sorely needed but also succesful. Go Buffy :-)

sasja | March 17, 15:20 CET

Ripley's only really a threat if she's cornered, and unless she happens upon construction equipment or a flame thrower by pure chance, she's really not that dangerous. Even when she effectively became a hybrid programmed replicate of herself several decades later, she did little more than creep people out by walking funny.

ZachsMind | March 17, 20:16 CET

ZachsMind, should I fire at you with my super-duper ray gun? Oh, wait! The silly thing doesn't work. I smell law suit!

As always, we welcome you, ZacksMind. Sixteen thousand questions burning thru my yay....take it you're steering towards 'The Dawn of the Dead?"

Madhatter | March 17, 23:05 CET

LOL, great thread! If it were an honest to goodness smackdown, I'd have to go with Bats, but I'm a longtime fan of the Caped Crusader. As others have said, Batman doesn't win on sheer power or strength, he wins through strategy, tactics, and intelligence. That said, I'd also agree with Zachsmind:

I tell ya guys you'd never see the battle between Buff and Bats. They'd so end up in the sack.

Oh, yeah! Good-bye Immortal, heellooo Caped Crusader!

punkinpuss | March 18, 02:33 CET

You guys put way too much faith in Batman. I'd still go with Bananaman. That guy could kick ass! Well, him or SuperTed.

What? They were never included in the poll? Ridiculous!

The Watcher | March 18, 04:42 CET

"ZachsMind, please script a Buffy/Wonder Woman crossover."

Ain't that what I just did back there? That was it. I mean "insert fight scene here" what you want me to go into detail? It's a waste of time to write a fight scene until you have the setting and the talent. It's like writing dialogue and having to add technical jargon. You can either stop writing and go research what that phrase would be or you simply bracket in [[technobabble]] and move on. Then you work in the rest later.

So get me SMG and Morena Baccarin, a studio set, some cameras, and a budget for costuming and stunt people and whatever, then I'll write the rest. *smirk*

ZachsMind | March 18, 07:47 CET

OK, it's just about to fall of the front page, but what the hell.
Batman would totally kick Buffy's arse and then do it!
(if he wasn't really gay that is)

nixygirl | March 18, 12:47 CET

Honestly... I think ROBIN would probably take Buffy down.
Buffy is awesome and all, but we have to give credit where its due. Even Robin is a thinker in Batmans own image. Buffy is physically better than him, but Robin would think of something.

Saskbuffyfan | March 18, 17:59 CET

I think that if Batman gets gadgets, Buffy gets scoobs which is Willow, which is death to everyone she wants dead.

BuffyIsLife | April 20, 10:04 CET

Plus he does it all without the scooby gang.

Haha, Batman's scooby gang is more confusing than 3 weeks of Passions! He's got Alfred, Robin, Catwoman(sometimes), Ace the Bat-hound, Bat-mite, Bat-Girl and Batwoman (who so needs to date Willow). The list can go on, and on.

Noclaf | June 13, 08:09 CET

March 16 2006