I can hope, I can hope....

Dana5140 | August 26, 17:19 CET

I think you have more chance of Firefly coming back than Buffy: Animated.

Simon | August 26, 17:20 CET

Are MTV making up rumours? Or are they trying to see if there's interest to pick it up for themselves? I signed the petition just in case. I know, can't help myself. I'd love to see this toon!

EDIT: Simon, can't we have both? New Firefly, Buffy Annimated and Dollhouse? It'd be like old times! But slightly different....

[ edited by bubblecat on 2008-08-26 17:23 ]

bubblecat | August 26, 17:21 CET

Oh man,I would so go for this if it got resurrected. I think of all the aborted Buffyverse projects that were announced or planned and never made,this would be the easiest one to bring back now and still do.

Buffyfantic | August 26, 17:22 CET

No but they are slightly misleading people with that headline.



I would give you my usual comedy answer with nudges and winks but this time I won't. So here comes my serious answer as to why the good old days will never come back.

Having Buffy, Angel and Firefly on at the same time nearly burnt Joss out. It was one hell of a workload and from what I remember reading he had a mini nervous breakdown sometime around the middle of Buffy season 7 (there's an interview that came out sometime around the finale which mentions this). So these days I think he'll want to focus on one big thing at a time. Plus he has a young family too. So ummm basically no in answer to your question.

Simon | August 26, 17:32 CET

Maybe Darkhorse should consider switching to animation and launch the remainder of Season 8 (or relaunch the entire season). Bypass the networks and make it web-only until the networks wake up enough to sniff the money, then release on TV.

quantumac | August 26, 17:57 CET

Ah, Simon, you're using logic! As I don't want any burnt-out Joss then I'd have to agree with you and just leave the wishes in the dreamscape.

bubblecat | August 26, 18:15 CET

They cruelly taunt us, those cruel taunty people.

Craig Oxbrow | August 26, 18:34 CET

The writer emailed me to say "Just to clear up any confusion, the story was more to set up the backdrop for Jeph Loeb's upcoming issue of the Buffy comic, which was inspired by the animated series that never was."

Simon | August 26, 18:52 CET

That might be so, Simon.

But if so, it would have made sense, perhaps, if said writer happened to actually mention that issue even once (they don't), and if they didn't entitle the entry "‘Buffy The Vampire Slayer’ Animated Series To Be Resurrected?" and if they didn't end the entry with "Do you want an animated Buffy? What network should it be on? And what would it take to get it on the air?"

I think we're justified in our supposedly mistaken views as to the article's intent.

The One True b!X | August 26, 19:16 CET

There sure has been an increase in chatter about the Buffy: Animated Series ever since SlayAlive started their campaign to get the show to return. First Nick Brendon and now Jeph Loeb have talked about it. Go fandom! Go!

Wyndam-Pryce | August 26, 19:26 CET

Oh, gods, MTV! Quit toying with my emotions! I'm not quite sure how much more I can take!

Linnea1928 | August 26, 19:31 CET

Nowadays I look at these kinds of news items sort of like I look at suspiciously good apartment ads on Craigslist. Would it be awesome? Oh yeah. Do I believe them? Not until I see something more concrete. There's a lot of spin out there for cult tv shows, it seems.

Sunfire | August 26, 19:46 CET

MTV's movie blog sure will get a lot of eyeballs on its advertising content, though.

The One True b!X | August 26, 19:54 CET

I think the reference to BAS was more of a descriptive towards Jeph Loeb's fine work on the comic. I would consider that a compliment towards Joss.

Madhatter | August 26, 20:46 CET

I don't see any good reason at all to try to squash the enthusiasm of the petition writers and signers for getting the Buffy Animated series brought back. Nothing bad ever happened to a franchise for showing the people with the rights to it that people want to see more of it.

KingofCretins | August 26, 21:07 CET

Crush. We crush enthusiasm, not squash it. ;)

The One True b!X | August 26, 21:36 CET

Not if you actually read the article. Buffy Animated is dead.

Simon | August 26, 21:39 CET

Oh, we can crush and squash, we've got facets. I'm considering branching out into smothering too, ambitious sure but it's all about belief.

(have to say though, that headline is way more than "slightly misleading" IMO)

Saje | August 26, 22:15 CET

Not if you actually read the article.

Also the case if you want to notice that what the writer told you doesn't hold up either.

The One True b!X | August 26, 22:18 CET

I hate how optimistic this article sounds. I refuse to even wish for Buffy Animated. If by some extreme miracle it gets picked up, I'll be happy, but I'm not going to waste my time thinking about it.

Giles_314 | August 26, 23:01 CET

It isn't going to be picked up. No one is even pitching it.

TamaraC | August 26, 23:04 CET

I should point out, at the risk of annoying Simon, that the article's own lede closes with "and looks to find new life once again".

So, in reality, that's why "if you actually read the article" so many people do not get the impression that it's dead.

(You know it's dead. I know it's dead. But the article simply does not communicate that it's dead. Maybe the writer emailed to say that wasn't what they meant. But it is quite obviously what they actually wrote.)

The One True b!X | August 27, 00:02 CET

Yeah but is it dead though ?

I hate how optimistic this article sounds.

Our influence spreads .... Muhuhahahaha !

Saje | August 27, 00:12 CET

Do you think theres some kind of connection between being dead and buffy animated/firefly/ripper/goners/wonder woman/the spike tv movie/suspension/insert random project that Joss thought up while in the bathroom?

[ edited by eddy on 2008-08-27 01:51 ]

eddy | August 27, 01:50 CET

Honestly, the fact that there's a petition means exactly squat. I was hoping that maybe there was actually some network interest in resurrecting the show, not just fans seeing the video and saying, "Hey, I wish that was a show." Because that was pretty much everyone's response, no?

And unfortunately, this article doesn't seem to shed any new light on the background of the show's failed pitch. I was hoping for some new insight into why it never got picked up, not that old chestnut that seems to pop up in every interview about it that Joss and Jeph were essentially handing out money and there were no takers.

alpha5099 | August 27, 02:20 CET

Yeah, there's absolutely no way it's coming back.

And I agree with bix: If you're pushing the upcoming animation-style issue of Buffy, why not be all courteous and actually mention the frakkin' thing?

UnpluggedCrazy | August 27, 02:59 CET

Wow, the front page is moving fast today.

I don't have high hopes that this will ever be picked up, but I'd love to see the scripts that have already been written released online someday. I'm sure some much more imaginative Buffy fans than I could do some amazing things with them like a radio show or such. It just seems to be such a waste to keep them locked up when there's no chance of them ever being used.

EvilElecBlanket | August 27, 03:03 CET

"Not if you actually read the article. Buffy Animated is dead."

Like "Firefly" and "Angel," right?

I don't particularly WANT "Buffy: Animated," but it's this kind of fan-crushing attitude that really bugs me. If fans don't dream, if fans don't believe that something could actually happen, do you think we'd have "Serenity"? Nope. I don't understand how a fan of Joss Whedon's work could have that type of attitude. Just don't.

patxshand | August 27, 03:04 CET

Well, if the MTV website is anything like the magazines I've written for, then the author of the article probably didn't get to write his own headline or his lead. Editors tend to treat the title and lead chosen by a writer as suggestions and often end up binning them and writing new ones (sometimes being less bothered with being correct then with coming across as "interesting"/"something you'd want to read" than the writer would like).

So it's quite possible that the writer's intent was what he e-mailed to Simon, while the end-product does not appear to conform to that idea.

Having said that, Loeb himself seems (unrealistically, if you read the rest of the article) optimistic in his closing comments, "justifying" the last line of the article in my mind.

(unless the person quoted, described as "Joeb" in the article, actually is someone else, dragged in to make us misinterpret Loeb's words, instead of a simple typo ;))

GVH | August 27, 03:50 CET

I hate to be the one that does this - oh, who am I kidding, no, I don't - but the fans are not responsible for getting Serenity made. That's a fandom legend, and at this point should be entered on Snopes.com and linked to on the side of WHEDONesque for ease of debunking.

I know we like to believe it - and there are a lot of wonderful things about this fandom for us to take actual pride in - but this just isn't one of 'em, though it keeps getting said.

I keep this on a stickie on my computer desktop, and need it about every two months:

JOSS WHEDON: "I’m privy to the essentials. Ultimately how good the DVDs sold certainly helped. But nobody ever said to me 'Ok we need a number on the DVDs before we greenlight the movie.’' I was already into the script, I was giving it to them, the timing was fortuitous and if nobody had bought the DVDs they might well have gone, 'Well gee I don’t know.' At the same time, everybody knew that nobody saw the show so we didn’t really know what a big fanbase there was.

I don’t think Universal gets enough credit. People assume they decided to do it after the DVD sales. But they’d been in it for almost a year before that. Based on the shows, the cast and the world they said 'Yeah there’s a movie in there.' ” - Joss Whedon, Interview by Daniel Robert Epstein, 9/30/05

P.R.N.

Obviously, without the persistence and drive of Joss Whedon, there'd be no Serenity, and for this and other Much Jossness, I am grateful.

QuoterGal | August 27, 04:02 CET

True enough Quoter Gal, but if the fans didn't love "Firefly" as hard as they did, and show how much they still supported it, would it have been made? Nope. In my opinion, definitely not.

I just think it's pretty strange to make such a sweeping, negative statement that the series is 100% dead (not directed to you, QG). Fans can hope, and who knows? It might get made. Is it likely? Nah, probably not. Possible? Certainly.

patxshand | August 27, 04:17 CET

FWIW, "in my opinion" does not actually trump documented factual history. Your mileage may NOT vary, despite what you might think.

The One True b!X | August 27, 04:32 CET

Sweeping and negative? Au contraire, I think it's a reasonable statement borne from long (in this fandom life anyway) experience of seeing hyped-up hopes crash like waves again and again on the shore of reality. Yes, fanthusiam is a good thing, mostly, but I believe Simon was giving a direct answer to a direct question in the form of his opinion, not some ukaze that prevents any fan from uttering a contrary view.

"I don't understand how a fan of Joss Whedon's work could have that type of attitude"? I don't understand how someone might think every Whedon fan has to share the exact same opinion about this - or any - subject.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 27, 04:37 CET

Perhaps it's about the wording, SNT, but I think "Not if you actually read the article. Buffy Animated is dead" is a lot different than "It's not going to happen, in my opinion." Differing opinions are fine, and it's kind of strange to suggest my post said otherwise. In fact, in that very post, I added that it wasn't likely that BUFFY: ANIMATED would happen. I just thought "Buffy Animated is dead" is a bit of a stretch, based on how we've seen our old series come back in new forms. That's what I intended with the " don't understand how a fan of Joss Whedon's work could have that type of attitude" comment, because how can we call any Joss work dead? They always seem to resurrect...

patxshand | August 27, 04:45 CET

Fair dos, pat, I get where you're coming from on that, just sounded a bit harsh is all.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 27, 04:56 CET

I'm with Pat -- it's ridiculous to poo-poo this petition or any positive mention of it. What is wrong with starting something that is getting such attention that perhaps even the Purple Dude will take notice and let us down himself, while thanking us for the support?

The petition proposes a *number* of alternative projects rooted in "Buffy: The Animated Series". A script book, for instance, of whatever they had already written. Maybe if Joss or Scott Allie or anyone else who might find this effort impressive, we could get a Buffy Animated era comic mini-series out of it. The net result if successful is more Buffy, in any number of outlets. When is that a bad thing? Ever?

I spoke to the petition's organizer, Emmie (a SlayAlive moderator), figuring since it's mostly her hard work that's being scrutinized, and she's not a member here, she should have a chance to speak to the peoples on the reasons behind this petition --



That all makes a lot of sense to me. I don't see why it's any different than what the Browncoats did. She wants us to do the impossible and for it to make us mighty. So do I.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2008-08-27 05:15 ]

KingofCretins | August 27, 05:13 CET

I don't see why it's any different than what the Browncoats did.

As you'll note from the rest of this thread, it would actually be significantly different than what the Browncoats did, since the Browncoats were not really responsible for getting anything made.

The One True b!X | August 27, 05:25 CET

Why won't people accept that fact that Browncoats DID NOT make Serenity happen? Joss Whedon's refusal to give up and Mary Parent's faith in him and the story made Serenity happen. Fans have very little power especially in today's Internet world where anyone can start a petition demanding shrimp to be served at McDonalds and get thousands of signatures. It just doesn't mean anything anymore.

TamaraC | August 27, 05:48 CET

But I don't like shrimp.

The One True b!X | August 27, 05:55 CET

And of course Joss did this *without* any interest in the fan support, *without* resolve strengthened by the fan support. Universal wanted to make the movie *without* consideration of the DVD sales.

Oy gevalt.

KingofCretins | August 27, 06:06 CET

KoC, the studio having a general recognition that a fanbase existed is quite a different beast than anyone believing that the fanbase actually made it happen. It's the latter that too many people continue to fixate (or, really, impale themselves) upon.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-08-27 06:11 ]

The One True b!X | August 27, 06:10 CET

Did I jump through some Orwellian rabbit hole where there *weren't* fansites for "Firefly" trying to whip people into a frenzy of DVD buying just in the hope of getting the movie made in the first place? Where those numbers *weren't* essentially being driven up artificially by deliberate organized effort? Where Joss himself didn't defer the credit to the fans in a video message?

Not exactly suffragettes around here, I'll say that.

KingofCretins | August 27, 06:16 CET

I see your Oy gevalt, and raise you an Oy Vay Iz Mir! The quotes from QG kinda reveal the truth of the thing. The frenzied DVD buying may have made everyone feel good about the greenlighting, but it wasn't the cause. And that cause isn't exactly universal suffrage, come to think of it.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 27, 06:53 CET

I actually don't recall any concerted fandom effort to get a movie made. From what I remember we were getting hints about one back in 2003 but the fandom didn't organise a campaign as a result. "The fans made it happen" was a nice one liner that Universal could feed to journalists.



Years of practice after seeing many projects never come to fruitation :P.

Simon | August 27, 07:24 CET

The suffragette thing was just odd, to me, KingofCretins - truly don't get where you're coming from on that - the right to vote? Wha-huh? Denying the myth of Serenity's origin disenfranchises us somehow?

And just by the by, I'm the last person in the world to pooh-pooh the power of this and other large & motivated fandoms - since we're raised thousands of dollars for Equality Now and other organizations, fed & supported striking WGA writers, helped to inform & sway public opinion online in favor of these writers, donated thousands to help out-of-work below-the-line Hollywood employees, and promoted countless creations by Joss and Company. (I'm sure there are many efforts I haven't named - I just don't know all of 'em.)

To a large extent, we were co-responsible for the recent online success of Doc Horrible, and though I'm sure it would be impossible to gauge the effect we've had on DVD sales of Firefly, Angel, BtVS et al., I'm sure it would be substantial and meaningful.

Which is not the same as being responsible for the making of a movie greenlit and in production months before the DVD sales of Firefly. It just ain't. And when it is pointed to as fact and a reason to have faith in another unlikely-to-be-realized project, it just strikes me as sortof mytho-religious in tone, and I find it... fuzzy and inaccurate.

I'd love to see animated Buffy - I enjoyed what I heard and saw of the clip, and both the writing and Eric's animation really held up, even after these years have gone by. For whatever reason, this clip was apparently leaked by someone with connections to the original production company that created it. It may be that the waters are being tested, it may be in connection with buzzing up the BtVS comic, or these things may be coincidental and unrelated. Hard to ferret all that out at this remove.

Hope for it and work towards it, if it pleases you - it's beyond my pay grade to know if it will have the slightest effect on its production or not. But for the love of the Gods that I don't believe in, please don't spread this frakkin' Serenity myth as history when we know differently straight from the Joss' mouth.

ETF: typos.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-08-27 07:48 ]

QuoterGal | August 27, 07:45 CET

I find it... fuzzy and inaccurate.

Faith-based fandom.

The One True b!X | August 27, 07:53 CET

KoC, it was greenlit 6 months before the DVD was released. What part of that is difficult to understand? This is not new info. It has been common knowledge for many years now that Universal Marketing spun the fandom to the point of lies. It also backfired on them horribly since they believed their own press. Studios see Joss' fans and immediately subtract instead of multiply. Serenity was a lesson to the studios to not overestimate vocal online fans. It causes losses.

TamaraC | August 27, 09:14 CET

Yeah but common knowledge ain't that common ;).

(I loved Joss' message on the DVD, really sincere and heartfelt and - I don't mind saying - kind of lovably dorky in the way that geeks have a special affinity for, but because of how much credence folk give to his words it's really become like something passed down from on high, like it must be true)

[ edited by Saje on 2008-08-27 12:04 ]

Saje | August 27, 10:47 CET

Sometimes I get really depressed here. Far too often a persons desire to be correct (and/or thought of as logical or witty) gets in the way of discussion and things get... difficult.

[ edited by Beren77 on 2008-08-27 13:23 ]

Beren77 | August 27, 13:21 CET

Facts and reality can throw a blanket on the craxie at times, Beren77. Don't see how that is a bad thing.

TamaraC | August 27, 14:01 CET

Sometimes I get really depressed here. Far too often a persons desire to be correct (and/or thought of as logical or witty) gets in the way of discussion and things get... difficult.

Yeah, I get how it can seem that way. On the flip side, it's frustrating to watch people get all excited about rumors and fan efforts that seem to just be setting people up for great disappointment. Many people here who point out the facts are just trying to caution people against getting their hopes up in cases where past experience strongly warns against it.

Sunfire | August 27, 16:00 CET

I agree TamaraC, and im definatly not taking sides on this particular topic. You are both, I would say, equally right.
Its just sometimes reading through comments such as these seems to be a bizarre process of de-egoification.
Yes, its a word... *shifts eyes* ...now.

Beren77 | August 27, 16:27 CET

Surely tough love?

Simon | August 27, 16:58 CET

Exactly. We crush because we care, like in 'Of Mice and Men'.

Saje | August 27, 17:15 CET

From what I seem to remember of that book, that would be a pretty creepy parallel. Maybe we're a bit like the Abominable Snow Rabbit sometimes, but not so much like Lennie, I hope.

Sunfire | August 27, 17:23 CET

It could be bunnies.

The One True b!X | August 27, 17:26 CET

Or maybe midgets.

Saje | August 27, 17:27 CET

I'm sure that the article wasn't intended to mislead-- but to garner readers. And nothing helps generate buzz than a bit of hope-inspiring rumor-mongering.

Not to get all cold-watery, but IMHO-- having run one back in the day which eventually had about 25k signatures-- online petitions aren't worth the paper they're written on. Having said that, they at least give pop-news reporters a hook to write about, 'cause there are few other easily quantifiable metrics to demonstrate fandom support-- and reporters love big numbers (i.e "1000 hits a second!")

Of course, in this particular case, it doesn't help that the originating material was over five years ago, never actually got to the production stage, and the idea for a fan campaign back then didn't seem to get any traction.

Striking while the iron is cold might make a lot of noise, but rarely ends up with a sharp weapon (or other, more appropriate metaphor.)

Whedonage | August 27, 18:23 CET

Abominable Snow Rabbit - I'll buy that. We're surely not the killer rabbit from Monty Python & the H.G.

Tonya J | August 28, 02:18 CET

A few things I wanted to add, even if it's an old post, as I registered today :
The writer emailed to say : "Just to clear up any confusion, the story was more to set up the backdrop for Jeph Loeb's upcoming issue of the Buffy comic, which was inspired by the animated series that never was.".
Isn't it strange that the article is about something, the comic issue, about which it doesn't talk ? I am kind of confused about this, as I thought the article is about what it says, which is Jeph Loeb saying : "Everything still exists — the designs, the scripts. It’s such a ‘no-duh’ project, so why the hell not? All you need is to draw it. Eight years ago, there was no fascination with ‘Family Guy’ or ‘Robot Chicken,’ but there’s an audience now that could drive to it. You can’t stand in the way of pop culture.”
That doesn't mean, IMHO, "Buffy animated is dead", does it ? And Jeph Loeb is maybe better informed than us on that subject.
For the Serenity debate, I don't have any opinion as I don't have any informations about this.
Trying to undermine the petition is not very nice. You may say : "I don't think it will work". But, if you would like an animated series, let us try to spread the world about it.

Léo | September 02, 14:56 CET