Fantastic. But what zeitgeist said. The pathos. Oh, the pathos. "A thing." The....you'll see. It was so funny and great and tuneful and then, oh then. What a gut punch.
I'm recovering, so I'm a little woozy, but was that Maurissa playing one of the groupies? If so, two things: (1) she's got a great voice and can act!, (2) she's adorable.
OMG.Wow.That was unexpected. and also not.I did love the ending. sort of. very conflicting emotions. reminds me of that Rolling Stones song.'You can't always get what you want...' only it's the opposite.He got what he wanted, not what he needed.It very nearly made me cry.
Yes, that was me yelling "Awww!! Awwww, maaaaan!!!!"
Oh...My...God.
That was heartbreakingly, hysterically awesome.
By the way, I am a big fan of Dark...and I shouldn't've been as surprised as I was.
But, DAMN...that rocked.
(And, Callyscat, I too am having a hard time closing my mouth right now.)
Oh, and one more thing: When's the frackin' DVD coming out???!!!
I didn't expect that. The humor rating dropped and the drama rating skyrocketed. *sigh* I didn't much care for Act III, but it's over now and I still love Act I and Act II.
OH HOLY HORRIBLENESS! I was not expecting that at all (though track record >>>> meet should'a known). Makes total sense and boy do I appreciate an untraditional ending. Everyone involved, thank you immensely. You've tripped the Light Fandango in my heart!! Marti and David, so wonderful to see you guys perform again. Neil, you are an amazing performer; I can't say it enough times.
Wow that got real dark, real fast. Not even remotely what I was expecting, but now I can't imagine how it could have ended any other way.
Oh, and did I mention how much I loved it?
While I really enjoyed the act, I think my favourite part was seeing the Grr Argh at the end. That made me so happy.
I do have conflicting thoughts on the act. I think it's a really interesting way to develop the story and I think it was really well done, but, for some reason, it seemed to me to not really fit with the rest of the show. In terms of music, the second act was my favourite, then first, then third. I don't know... I just felt like something was missing.
That said, loved the comedy, loved seeing David, Marti, and apparently Drew G and Doug (I'll need to rewatch). Loved most of it.
Sorry for the odd ramble. I need to watch it again, in order to fully process.
Joss. We should expect this from you by now. And yet, we love you for winning our hearts, and then ripping them out. Who else but you in this 'verse can say that?
Three years without live-action Joss, and we still fall for every syllable - and always will.
*tears* damn you.... love you.... and always....thank you.
I did like the ending.sort of. I don't like Penny's fate but I like the Doctor's. Hey, can we mention what happened yet? It's kinda hard trying to talk about it in a spoiler-free way.
Wow, I didn't expect that but, this being Joss, I guess I should've. I loved that first song with the groupies. I seriously played it three times. "We have a problem with her!" But even better was the Elfmanesque song Dr. Horrible sang at the ceremony.
***SPOILERS***
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That was nowhere close to getting tears out of me, maybe 'cause I just didn't connect to the characters on anything more than a superficial these-folks-are-funny-and-sweet way, but without getting heavily invested in 'em. I knew not to get too attatched, but if one of the main three had to bite it, would rather it be Penny than the two bringing the most comedy. And I'm not surprised it happened, though I would've rather had more fun and lighthearted evildoing. Save the pain for a sequel, y'know? Anyone else kinda feel that way? After the first and second (and I was perfectly fine with the awesome anger in the second one), I wanted more of that feeling.
Felicia Day had a sweet voice, is pretty, and I liked her speaking lines too, but...the show can still go on without her if they make more. That was a shitty death though, for her. And oh man, "Captain Hammer will save us"...ouch.
If it had just been Hammer's fault, cool, I could just hate him some more (though I love what he brings to the story and Nathan continues to rock), but it was Billy's fault almost entirely. Sure, Hammer provoked, but Billy's the one who decided to pursue villainhood and build a death ray and attempt to use it and yeah I realize the logic of the whole thing is sillyness, but if you're gonna go for drama that heavy, then the fans can take it seriously when it pertains to the dramatic parts.
I think the third act was tremendous musically. You know, the sadness of this makes total sense. With Joss there are always consequences, aren't there?
Was that Drew Goddard in the wig at the Evil League of Evil table? Loved seeing Marti Noxon and David Fury as those ridiculous newscasters. I note that Ben Edlund is thanked in the closing credits. I wonder in what way he contributed.
And the thoroughbred of sin really was a horse!
Oh, so sad. I can't bring myself to watch it again immediately.
There was a whole lot of yelling "Really??!!! REALLY????!!!" by me and the roommate. Unexpected, but expected. I had a feeling something very dramatic would have to happen to wrap things up in under 15 minutes. But I didn't expect THAT.
It's hard to believe. I am totally shocked. It really was a horse.
As for that other thing, well yeah, it's Joss. I should have known it would either be that, or Penny jumping through the air doing karate kicks. Still, to end a musical comedy like that. The man bends genres and does not pull punches, that's for damned sure.
As I said at DoctorHorrible.net, real hate only happens when you care, but the worst things a person can do to others only happen when one doesn't care anymore.
All I can say: Don't let it end this way.
(Hey. That almost rhymed. Well... It rhymed, but it had no rhythm.)
i too thought that might happen ... oh well I just have to hope ... the core of the death ray was composed of wonderflonium which combined with the metal of the death ray and thereby conferring superpowers (and a resurrection) onto Penny ... the successor to ... well take your pick!
The music reminded me a lot of the soundtrack from ASH's REPO! The Genetic Opera -- dark & foreboding.
One song in the middle was incredibly Sondheimesque -- I assume Joss wrote that one since he's such a huge Sondheim fan. The opening song seemed less like a musical... I'm wonding if Jed wrote that one?
At the risk of blasphemy, I'll say I was somewhat disappointed by Act III. Acts I and II were so lighthearted and tongue-in-cheek, but Act III didn't have that air of lightness. I'm all for broodiness in other Joss works like BtVS, Angel, etc., but Dr. Horrible seemed to be a more fun piece... until Act III.
Yeah, the evil laugh was dead on. And his freeze ray really did work. And he mad it to the evil league of evil.
You know they're going to hold college courses on this mushortio alone.
I loved the music. Want to watch again, but I'm not ready. Makes it harder to choose a t-shirt.
Honestly, I liked Nathan's song. Sure, they were sheep, but he seemed to come to a little bit of a realization of helping people... he grew in his own way.
um, wow. That was super harsh... and depressing... and depressing. Did I mention I'm really depressed right now? I kept waiting for there to be an extra scene after the credits with a little redemption or hope or anything... but nope (except for the grrr arrgh! yay!)
Not sure how if I like it yet, maybe I need a few more viewings.
I can't lie though, I'm disappointed. I think Act II was my favorite, definitely.
EDIT: Update: So I watched again and really after thinking, it really couldn't have ended any other way. It was poignant and perfect. I think I was sucked into the happy-slappy disney-esque quality of the musical-ness of the first 2 acts to remember this is Joss and it has to be Joss-y. It caught me off guard and I freaked out a little bit. Who would have thought your typical supervillain-musical would give you so much upon which to ponder and reflect?
In the end, I loved it. LOVED IT!! And I want to thank Joss & co and the cast and crew for their numerous talents!! THANKS!
She also, FWIW, finds a way to mention craft services in almost every interview she does. That's actually why I didn't really buy into what people were saying that comment indicated.
I knew it would end with Penny dying, but still that last 5 seconds was gut wrenching. That's the thing with Whedon, you think you know what's to come, but it's the delivery that will get you every single time. The Actors were just fantastic.
That was honestly just amazing and the best ever!!
I so loved this and I want more and I don't care how you un-kill Penny, just get her back and make more and more and more of this. No, not a Broadway musical trapped in New York.. maybe a full length feature dvd musical... something that the whole world can enjoy.
Thank you so much for the wonderful adventure. Much love to all the Whedons and Cos and the Actors and everyone.
Kisses
Fabulous! It was inexplicably unexpected. There is no reason why it should be unexpected, but that Joss is the master at the set up. Truly brilliant at getting me to bite the shiny red apple. Loved every gut wrenching moment.
Thanks J,J,M and Z!
And can the Emmy voters just watch this instead and just give NPH the damn award already?. Sheesh!
Ouch. That was a painful ending... Right now I kind of hate Act III. Will have to wait and see if my feelings change. Thinking we might all need some group therapy to work through this...
Wow. Assuming that it was Joss's, rather than Jed or Maurissa's, hand in that end, that's his first truly tragic denouement, isn't it? I think it was bleak and inevitable (but yet I didn't see it coming) and magnificent. One more fluffy ep would have left us with a little too much sweetness, and not so much to ponder on. And I agree with phleb, the music in this Act was gorgeous. Loved the multiplicity of parts in "So They Say" - the "Tonight" (or "Walk Through the Fire") of Dr. H. Loved loved the final number.
Wow, I wasn't expecting quite the dark turn, although I knew from Act I that someone wasn't going to survive. But, if the story is to live on in any other incarnations, it had to be Penny.
And I, too, heard a good bit of Sondheim influence.
(I liked that Bad Horse's real name -- if one can believe the credits -- was Dobber.)
You know, maybe someone who reacts as poorly as I do to character death should have picked a different auteur to worship? And yet I keep coming back...
In a thematic, story sense it worked perfectly. Thinking back on the whole thing, the ending seems entirely inevitable. But it's hard to remember that when it still feels kinda like you took a blow to the chest :(
It's important to note that nothing I said above will in any way dissuade me from wanting a soundtrack, DVD, and sequel, right now this minute! See how he/they get me?
I am going to have faith in Joss & co. because I love and they are most deserving of that love. I am hoping beyond all hopes that this is just the "how" of Dr. Horrible's story. People always want to know how someone could be evil, and now we know how Billy Buddy did. I mean, is there anyone here who is unclear right now how this all came to be? And, really, do you think that he is still not just a "poseur in a parka" so to speak? He hasn't overtly done ANYthing. He's just kind of ridden the wave of a horrible mistake. I have no doubt that more will be revealed in either further web content or in comic book form. We all just have to be patient. And trust. And hope.
I sent Felicia a message that pretty much sums up my thoughts right now...Joss clearly has issues with dirt on the carpets, because he's always yanking the rug out from under us...
As one of the little people (crew guys) who got hit really hard by the WGA strike, I have to give props for doing something like this. If he wanted to make a statement, this is the way to do it. No real studio involvement? Check. Low budget? Done. Debuting it independenlty on a fledgling medium and focusing on a less-than-mainstream genre? Gutsy and with gusto.
Best of all? It looks and plays as well as anything produced on TV.
There is a reason Joss is up there on a pedestal. Neil, Nathan, Felicia...all heroes to New Media.
Pardon me, I think I need to go watch it again...
Anyone else already playing the how-will-the-sequel-work game?
[ edited by zeitgeist -signature removed- on 2008-07-19 05:52 ]
witaria said:
"You notice each Whedonverse ending gets bleaker and bleaker?"
Do you mean as far as the characters dying, like a person ending ? Or the conclusions of each series/film ? I'm not gonna tackle every single character death (Fred's soul-destroyed-in-the-fires-of-Illyria's-rebirth I would say is the bleakest Whedon death. Given that souls exist beyond a shadow of a doubt in the Buffyverse, it means she was completely destroyed unless you consider Illyria's trace memories of her a form of surviving)...but as far as each project goes...
"Chosen" we got Anya dying (that hurt the most), a bunch of Potentials dying (okay "Millie" dying was depressing too), Spike dying (unless you knew ahead of time he was gonna be in Angel Season 5, then not quite so sad), and the end of the town...but otherwise it ended on a hopeful note.
The Angel finale (I can't believe I forget the ep title), I dunno if it should be included, since it wasn't the intended series finale (then again, the comics for both Buffyverse properties complicate this whole "ending" thing anyway). But since it's what we got...Lindsay dead, Lorne depressed and wanting to leave, Eve...who cares...I can't remember if anything else really sad happened...I dunno, I think Buffy's finale beats it for bleakness (c'mon, they would've beat that impending doom...apparently they did or are in the process of doing so, if you've read the Season 6 comic. I haven't).
Firefly had "Objects in Space", an episode full of hope, so no bleak there. Serenity counts as the proper/makeshift finale to that though, so yeah, you've got Book, Wash, and a whole lotta people dead...It did end on a life-goes-on hopeful not though, like Buffy.
Anya's death in Buffy gutted me, so I think that wins for personal bleakest series/movie finale (sure, she got 1000 years, but).
If we're including comics, objectively, Fray ended pretty bleakly as well. With the reveal of who killed Loo and the reveal about Urkonn...she was kinda left completely alone there at the end, with the exception of maybe her sister having her back.
I know Joss frequently switches tone/gears in many of his projects, but those are all dramas at their heart with comedic dosages. Dr. Horrible is comedy/nuttyness that evolved into a drama the more we saw of it, which...yeah, I just don't get as attatched so easily when it's presented that way.
Ok, you know what? I'm going to go totally against type here.
(and I'm assuming you've all seen it if you've gotten this far, but SPOILERS)
SCREW THAT.
I knew . . . I KNEW Joss was gonna kill off Penny. He ALWAYS kills off one of the beloved good guys. He doesn't NOT know how!! It's his ONLY PLOT TWIST.
I loved Angel and I would KILL (seriously, try me) to have more Firefly, so really, to anyone who might take exception to this little rant, I have all the love in the world for Mr. Whedon for creating wonderful worlds . . . but can't he write ONE THING with a gorram happy ending?! JUST ONE. This had it written all over it! Cute, spoofy, funny, sweet . . . it would have been lovely! But no, "One Trick" Whedon has to kill off the sweet, innocent, flawless homeless shelter girl to teach us the same lesson we learned in every other piece of work he's done.
Everyone who was surprised that she died: HOW? It's the same trick he pulled in Serenity. And three times in the last season of Angel. And how many times in Buffy! I would have been surprised if everyone LIVED . . . pleasantly surprised!
So, review: I loved this entire little online flick. Brilliant. Until the end. Then it got predictable. And then SUCKED.
I know we shared some great times together. Like the "Objects in Space", "Doppelgangland" and more, but I think it's time we go our separate ways.
It's not you, it's me. I just can't take much more misery and heartache. It's just too much. You create such wonderful and truly engaging characters. I get attached to them, and then, you kill them. It's for my own good. It affects my sunny disposition.
Best of luck in the future,
crazygolfa
PS: You know I'm a sucker for punishment, when does Dollhouse begin.
Aw, Penny was totally looking for Billy in the laundromat when she realized Hammer did have a third layer of cheese.
Nightmare -- ha!
First time through I was devastated. Second time through I could only think of what comes next. There needs to be more to the story. This would act as a great setup to the story of Dr. Horrible and the Evil League of Evil. (Leading to his eventual, painful redemption of course.)
If I think of it as a prologue it doesn't hurt so much.
So...the end. I seem to be thinking that it returning to the blog at the end makes it feel to me as though it never happened. He's sans garb after all. I'm sure someone else can straighten me out on the subtleties I'm probably not picking up.
I knew he'd do that...just hoped he wouldn't, and here I am, heart broken into a million pieces, Jossed anyway. I physically shook through the second half of that act. Wow.
That said, I've turned quite a few people onto the series, and some of them have just been Jossed for the very first time.
I'm not overly thrilled with Act III. There's only so much my heart can take! I know I won't be watching it a second time for a while.
I loved Acts I and II, and this one seemed to be a disconnect with Act III somewhere. Where did all the lighthearted dialogue go? Usually I feel more balance, but I just felt depressed after watching.
Maybe once time passes and I watch the DVD, my opinion will change. I hope so.
Okay, was it just me that was thinking "You've got someone with a serious wound who won't survive without major surgery, use the freeze ray! Freeze her, get her to hospital where she can thaw out and be operated on!"
But then I remembered that this is Joss, and that would have been a cheap cop out.
The last minute or so, right after Penny's death, might be the very best thing in this entire trilogy of episodes. What a fabulous end. The song's themselves all seemed technically good, but didn't stand out strongly on the first viewing.
As for how the sequel will work, frankly, I don't think Penny's death really would hurt the main story at all if they made another one. She told Dr. Horrible in the second act that it's not that things get better, it's just that everything happens, and worse things happen than happen to you. That implacable, not optimism, than blind hope had to go if he was to be an actual villain.
The ending was good, and it didn't hit me in the gut as much as it did other people in this thread. Frankly the darker turn that was starting last act was more interesting than the high quality, but slight, comedy of act 1. Techincally, I have problems with how the final bit before Penny died was handled (I found it oddly muddled, and inevitable in a more writerly way than a firm dramatic one,) but his killing her, however accidently, was sound.
I don't have the same "downer" feeling as many people do when characters in these types of things die. Especially a character we've only watched for such a short time. But that's my two cents.
I thought people were joking when they predicted this ending. I actually had some bizarre notion that things would turn out sappy. Which would not have left me satisfied.
But this didn't leave me satisfied, either. Just very sad.
Which I guess is the point.
It felt like kind of a non sequitur. I think it will feel less like one, once I watch all three parts together. Which I absolutely do not have the resolve for tonight. Maybe Sunday. (I'm having a pretty pretty princess party tomorrow, and somehow I feel like watching this will not put me in the right mood for that.)
Thinking we might all need some group therapy to work through this...
witch_kat | July 19, 05:43 CET
What's all this we? I'm perfectly fine with the ending, pain and all.
In fact, if it'd been a "happy" ending, I might've been kind of disappointed.
Look, Dr. Horrible is a villian. A low-rent, bargain basement villian--with a crush on a girl--but a villian none the less.
Capt Hammer is a "hero". He's a flat-out jackass, but he's still the "hero".
Dr Horrible is trying to get into the Evil League of Evil. Not the Salvation Army. And he's willing to do anything to get in.
He was going to kill Capt. Hammer, who kind of did deserve it, but still. Killing. To get into an elite Club.
In the end, Dr. Horrible got what he wanted. But a price had to be paid.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
I'm just sayin'.
I disagree Kris. I think tonally both BtVS and AtS were optimistic, if not upbeat, endings. Buffy's freed from her isolation and duty as the one Slayer (or so she thinks . . .), the First is vanquished for now, most of her people made it. There's a chance for rest and reflection.
Angel's going out (heh) swinging, the gang had their last good day, they're ready, and they're charging forward - momentum, positivity.
By contrast, nobody has what s/he wants at the end of Dr. H - Capt. Hammer's a basket case, Penny's dead, and Dr. H. had been made aware of the price he's paid for getting what he thought he wanted. That's bleak. And brilliant.
I'm with you, SNT, Brand New Day may be a fantastic show-stopper, Act-ender, but the score in Act III sounded to my ear much more layered and intricate. Act I was the honeymoon, Act II was the divorce, and Act III was "the great black pit" in more ways than one. There is no coincidence that Dr. H resembles Sweeney Todd. The plot and the music became progressively darker with each installment.
Okay. I can understand the disappointment if you only watched it once. Having seen Acts I and II multiple times, I was expecting another giddy sunburst. And that's pretty much what this was up until Penny's death. I was totally shocked. I felt great sadness, and everything afterwards was something of a murky, depressing blur.
I immediately watched it again, knowing what was to happen, and the tonal change was not handled sloppily. It worked perfectly. I think people weren't initially approaching this as the vicious social commentary that it is, and that might account for some disappointment. I mean, this sucker cuts into society in a deep, deep way. It chastises the media, hero worshipers, people who aspire to empty positions, everyone who watches on the sidelines. I mean, no one is left unscathed by Dr. Horrible.
It is a brilliant work, and the best film of 2008. (Yes, I've seen The Dark Knight. I was not expecting Dr. Horrible to trump it, but...well, Joss has a funny way of getting around expectations.)
I really wanted Captain Hammer to die. He's the villain of the piece, and I can think of few villains more utterly loathsome.
But, hey, there were still hysterical moments. Basically anything with Captain Hammer was fried gold.
Oh, and I'll be transcribing the lyrics again. E-mail me if you want them.
Even without the massive jolt to the heart, it just didn't seem to pack the same kind of punch as the other acts. *shrugs* And Dobber (Bad Horse) didn't look very menacing. :P Nathan sung well, though. :D
For those who think the events in act 3 came out of nowhere: The person above who called it an origin story is right on. If you think of it like that, that this is the story of how Dr. Horrible becomes so evil, it all makes sense. It's sad to lose Penny, because I really liked her. But I loved seeing Dr. Horrible's reaction to it, how something died inside him and his heart turned all black inside. I could read that all in his eyes, and it was amazing.
I don't think that means it never happened. I think it means that he got everything he supposedly wanted, he's a feared and celebrated supervillain, but it's all basically an act now, one that he's trapped himself in.
That last shot is who he really is now, hence the lack of villain garb.
Marvelous. I'm sure that all those who doubted Joss would make this dark are sadly celebrating, but it was a great ending. A great cliffhanger ending. I need resolution! When's the sequel coming out? :)
zz9,I thought the same thing. But that wasn't going to happen.:(.
Having watched a second time, the ending does seem fitting. Dr Horrible(I almost called him The Doctor...) got what he wanted. and like many people before him, he realized it wasn't what he hoped. but he can't go back. It's a great setup for a sequel as well. I'll be patiently (ok,not so much) waiting.
I get it as a parable of the strike, etc., etc., but as it stands Act I was good, Act II was fantastic and Act III happened. I've watched and rewatched and rewatched again and though I find a lot to enjoy, I don't love where it went. It makes perfect sense as an origin story, sure, and I don't think that it came out of left field at all, but that doesn't mean I have to love it. Which is a good thing, cause I don't.
I think Act 2's score and escalating darkness lead into this act pretty well. I don't think it's a jarring tonal shift, merely a story which starts light and ends up in a dark place, which isn't that uncommon.
Both Amazongirl and UnpluggedCrazy said different aspects of how I feel more eloquently than I could. I think that a work with some honest to god meaning to it will last longer than if it ended happily for Dr.Horrible. Penny in a lot of ways to me felt like an archetype. A combination of the comicbook cliche model girlfriend and a almost unrealisticly hope filled optimist. If Dr.Horrible had given up his quest to make it as a villain to end up with her, I don't really know what the story would have been about dramatically.
And the other members of the Evil League of Evil: Professor Normal, Fake Thomas Jefferson, Tie-Die, Jed Whedon as Dead Bowie, Fury Leika, Snake Bite, and Bad Horse.
See, that's the brilliant thing about the ending. Horrible gets everything he says he wanted, and he gets it without actually killing anyone -- it's a backfire from Captain Hammer, the "hero" who _was_ willing to kill -- but pays the horrible price.
Come on, this is a musical about a supervillain. There are only two possible endings. It ends badly for him, or it ends well for him, which is bad, because he's a villain.
Joss chose C, all of the above. Brilliant. Heartbreaking. Very Joss.
Well,since when do people do that, really? Give up your life's quest, dream, to be with the one you love?
Some may,eventually, after years and years of fight and suffering, but it is still rare.I wonder if Penny would've accepted Billy knowing his alter ego was Dr Horrible.
I think I need to watch em all in a row to get the impact right. I mean, I watched the first several times, the second several times, and listened to the music nonstop since Tuesday morning. I was used to it being mostly happy and cheerful, with even the sad parts fun to listen to, and then this.
i mean, nomatter how much you say "it's joss, of COURSE something like that's gonna happen", its still a shock and horror. not sure how i feel about ti yet; act 2 was better musicly, but man...
That last shot is who he really is now, hence the lack of villain garb.
That last shot was perfect. Almost the best moment in the entire thing. Amazing.
palehorse | July 19, 06:05 CET
I liked his new Evil League of Evil duds.
No more white. He's lost his "virginity". The red coat and black gloves were a spot-on choice.
Someone here mentioned that it's an origin story. Absolutely.
And that last shot of him on his "Blog" was heartbreaking.
I pity anyone who procured a white lab coat for a Comic-Con Dr. Horrible costume before seeing his transformation Act III. And on another costume-related topic: Exactly when does Captain Hammer wear his sweater vest? He wore his t-shirt to the dedication ceremony and IMO would be more prone to sweaters after his transformation than before.
The Hammer groupies transformation is also confusing to me. Sure, they had a problem with Penny. But I took that to be envy. But their becoming Dr. Hammer groupies evokes a fickle fandom connotation I wouldn't associate with the whedonverse.
Can someone confirm something to me? Dr Horrible knows the weapon's going to backfire, right? It's all fritzy and he looks at it before he says "Don't"? I've rewatched that bit a few times now and I'm still not totally sure.
kiba, strange isn't it? I did not LOVE Wash as much as others, but considering how long we had to know and love Penny, is strange how much her death makes me sad.
@Batman1016
Happily ever after? Find such fairytles in your local library under L for Lies :)
You know that Whedon will always send you on a rollarcoaster. Otherwise it's just not worth it.
There's no way Whedon would let this be the end. He knows that he has created a Horrible Horrible monster and there's money to be made and rabid fans are rabid.
But I loved seeing Dr. Horrible's reaction to it, how something died inside him and his heart turned all black inside. I could read that all in his eyes, and it was amazing.
Yes. When the paramedics carted off Penny and he sang, "I'm fine," it gave me the shivers.
OK, I'm better now. Watched it again and I enjoyed it much more thoroughly. I just don't think I can compare it to the other two acts, though. And really, why should I? I think I'm just going to have to start thinking about this as a full movie, rather than a mini-series. How often do I rank my favourite acts in movies? Precisely.
Loved the last bit in the Evil League of Evil Headquarters. And, of course, the final shot of the blog.
Not the biggest fan of most resurrections done in comics, TV, and film, but if they are gonna bring Penny back some day down the road...she's a red head and looks more than a little like she could be related to Famke Janssen, the actor who played Jean Grey/Phoenix in the X-Men films. Visually, she's almost pre-destined for it in a superhero/villain movie like this.
UnpluggedCrazy said:
"I think people weren't initially approaching this as the vicious social commentary that it is, and that might account for some disappointment. I mean, this sucker cuts into society in a deep, deep way. It chastises the media, hero worshipers, people who aspire to empty positions, everyone who watches on the sidelines. I mean, no one is left unscathed by Dr. Horrible."
I loved that aspect of it throughout all three acts, I'm sure it'll continue if they do sequels. They set it up nice with Billy blogging about it and hating on "the status quo", so it's in the story too beyond just the omniscient storytellers (brothers Whedon) telling us what they think, very cool.
I just think it could've ended slightly differently and still been effective. I liked it a lot though. Acts 1 and 2 are untouchable and I loved the humor of Act 3 as well in addition to a couple of the songs.
I'm curious as to what 'Dead Bowie's' evil villain claim to fame would be. Fooling people into believing that he's really David Bowie and then charging them for autographs and photos?
Oh, Joss, you're breaking my heart! I can understand why some people may be really upset and pissed off and now hate the whole thing, but... I get it, I really do. There is no way it could have a "happy" ending and still be so powerful. It's the ache that makes it great, the "if you just gave up this evil stuff and did your laundry you could sit and have fro yo and get the girl!!!", and it makes me feel really good to think of it as an origin story. I've always felt that in the whedonverse, everyone is justified in their own way, even the villains' motives can be understood. And there's no way Dr. Horrible could be so horrible if he was dating a sweet, homeless-loving girl on the side.
So, yes, it was incredibly sad, and shocking, and Act III was not so lighthearted, but now that I can watch it all as one, I really do love it.
Also, Nathan is HI-larious! and NPH gives me chills like no other. Yikes...
Ok, I just want to point out, Billy's last name isn't Buddy, so no need to call him that or capitalize it. The best part of Act III is the credit that shows Joss wasn't one of the onscreen Bad Horse Chorus. Can we put that one to bed now?
That last shot was perfect. Almost the best moment in the entire thing. Amazing.
Absolutely the best moment of the entire thing - and it makes me forgive Act I for being a bit bloated and not terribly engaging to me. This last moment gives the whole story depth - and the songs in Act III are probably the best of the whole series.
ok,
here's my 2 cents before i go off and have a good cry
1, I SHOULD"VE known!!! Jenny Calander, joyce, anya, fred, spike, tara, walsh, the list is endless of people we've loved then lost. (doesn;t make this easier)
2. Yes i know it fits in well with the story, to make him a REAL villan not just a wanna be joss needed to kill his soul. God knows i've seen it happen at work, people work so hard to become surgeons at the cost of their family, then they loose everything they actually care about and have nothing but their career so they pour themselves into that, so i get him now pouring himself into what;s left (still not any easier)
3. i'm still sad :( damn you whedon you always leave me in this sate
4. how are we going to have sing-a-longs with an ending like that???
ok i'm off to have a good cry, then some frozen yougurt (which i've been craving since act 2 aired). then i might attempt a rewatch if i'm not still in shock
Music wasn't as good this act. Seemed weaker, less powerful, despite beautiful harmonies. But then *awaits the angry remarks* I didn't really like Felicia's voice, it kinda irritated me, despite the fact that her pitch was perfectly fine.
I want that red lab coat.
Loved the grr argh at the end. And why wouldn't they leave things open? Leaves them with a world of opportunity to pursue if it's as successful as I think it has been. *waits for international itunes so I can pay them their dues, literally*
Billy Buddy... Billy Budd anyone? Melville? Okay -- go back and watch it again. I was not happy the first time round (whole rug pulling thing and so forth), but I appreciated it more the second time. Lovin' the music! And the tortured Doc. Looking forward to a possible sequel.... Glad to see the Grr Arrgh in there.... Thank you Dr Horrible Team! Thank you Evil Lair guy! Thank you Marti Noxon, Doug Petrie, and Drew Goddard for coming out for the team! "It's a good day to be homeless!"
phleb - was just saying that as I keep seeing it capitalized as Billy Buddy, when what Penny was singing was "Billy, buddy". You don't want IMDB changing his name to Billy Buddy, do you? :)
I wonder how people will feel once they see this all as one big movie on a DVD a few months from now. I think it will be a different reaction no matter what side of the fence we are on. Right now we can sit down and watch all three acts in a row, but they are etched in our minds as three distinct things we saw on three different days. Seeing it as one, as many of the press managed, will be very interesting.
I don't want to do that just now. I'd rather just enjoy this third one a few more times, and then when the DVD comes out watch it again that way. I imagine it will track much better that way.
I'll hope for a sequel, and Doctor Horrible figuring a way to raise Penny from the dead...
Of course he can bring her back! He's a mad scientist.
But you know she'll come back all messed up & he'll have to kill her again and then we'll all be really miserable. :)
Ok reading everyone else's ideas and responses is helping. When I step away from the heartbreak I can see the themes and the layers and social commentary and think they are brilliant. I love Joss because he doesn't make fluff and then I got sad when he didn't make a fluff ending... but I'm better now...(So really whedonesque IS my group therapy)
Wow, wasn't expecting that...but looking back I should have expected something this powerful. Off to have my jaw reattached...very uncomfortable with it on the floor...maybe should have swept this am.
I also noticed that he couldn't pull the trigger when Captain Hammer was frozen and singing about "no mercy". It was like he was having second thoughts.
But that's my POINT: Serenity's end was a rollercoaster. Cordy dying in Angel, and then Fred, and Wesley at the end . . . THAT was a rollercoaster. This was PREDICTABLE. It didn't have impact (at least, not for me), and it was so SIMPLE.
I'm a (admittedly amateur, but I'm told very talented) writer. I can write a tragic death. That's easy. It's writing an improbable way for everything to work out and everyone be fine that's hard. And being a work of Whedon, THAT would have been the surprise.
Sure, it's an origin, it's tragic and beautiful. But I'm really just tired of tragic and beautiful from Joss. I wanted fully lighthearted and fun with a few serious moments. It would have been a change of pace.
ETA: Only in Firefox on a Mac; Safari seems ok.
[ edited by karosurly on 2008-07-19 05:03 ]
karosurly | July 19, 05:02 CET
And it's loading now. Egads, I'm excited.
Jobo | July 19, 05:03 CET
They say you get to do the weird stuff."
Groupies: "We do the weird stuff!"
Ah, reunion of Mustard Man and Parking/Underwear Lady. Gotta love Fury and Noxon.
Kris | July 19, 05:05 CET
Calleyzkat | July 19, 05:05 CET
"next up, who's gay!"
Nalliac | July 19, 05:06 CET
zeitgeist | July 19, 05:12 CET
Calleyzkat | July 19, 05:14 CET
zeitgeist | July 19, 05:15 CET
spikeangellover | July 19, 05:16 CET
Calleyzkat | July 19, 05:16 CET
buffyangel299 | July 19, 05:16 CET
sportforredneck | July 19, 05:16 CET
Fantastic. But what zeitgeist said. The pathos. Oh, the pathos. "A thing." The....you'll see. It was so funny and great and tuneful and then, oh then. What a gut punch.
I'm recovering, so I'm a little woozy, but was that Maurissa playing one of the groupies? If so, two things: (1) she's got a great voice and can act!, (2) she's adorable.
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2008-07-19 05:18 ]
phlebotinin | July 19, 05:17 CET
:( *tears*
minuet | July 19, 05:17 CET
Not very articulate, but it's about all I can muster right about now.
(Um...er...I'm not crying...)
[ edited by NikkiSixx on 2008-07-19 05:17 ]
NikkiSixx | July 19, 05:17 CET
okelay | July 19, 05:17 CET
Wow. I'm sort of in shock.
I have no idea how I feel about this.
I mean...awesomely written/acted, etc., but...oh my god.
Lirazel | July 19, 05:17 CET
jkalderash | July 19, 05:17 CET
jcs | July 19, 05:17 CET
(in an entirely stupendous way)
beck | July 19, 05:17 CET
It was great to see the "Grr Argh" at the end.
shishkarobb | July 19, 05:18 CET
Oh...My...God.
That was heartbreakingly, hysterically awesome.
By the way, I am a big fan of Dark...and I shouldn't've been as surprised as I was.
But, DAMN...that rocked.
(And, Callyscat, I too am having a hard time closing my mouth right now.)
Oh, and one more thing: When's the frackin' DVD coming out???!!!
[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2008-07-19 05:22 ]
[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2008-07-19 05:22 ]
AmazonGirl | July 19, 05:18 CET
Cyantre | July 19, 05:18 CET
broodyangelcakes | July 19, 05:18 CET
gt0163c | July 19, 05:19 CET
Definitely brilliant although i will have to watch it another time or two for it to sink in. Greak work Joss!
phoenix1023 | July 19, 05:19 CET
jcs | July 19, 05:19 CET
[ edited by Tonya J on 2008-07-19 05:21 ]
Tonya J | July 19, 05:20 CET
phlebotinin | July 19, 05:20 CET
That wasn't funny at all. It was sad. Really sad. And shocking. And moving. And sad.
Sorry. Coherent sentences are still beyond me.
lookitsjulia | July 19, 05:21 CET
I had a suspicion it would end like this, but I wasn't too sure.
I'm very sad right now. The whole thing is fantastic, it's just really depressing.
I mean, it was all funny and goofy, and I was laughing, and then Joss just suddenly ripped my heart out. It was all very painful and graphic.
Racoon Boy | July 19, 05:21 CET
... There is no happy ending ...
sigh.
NickSeng | July 19, 05:21 CET
janeway216 | July 19, 05:21 CET
Someone maternal!
[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-07-19 05:21 ]
theonetruebix | July 19, 05:21 CET
I really wish I wasn't right about the death ray or craft services.
Was it real? I'm in shock. My world is up-side-down and inside out. Beautiful punch, confused a little, don't want it to be true.
korkster | July 19, 05:21 CET
lexigeek | July 19, 05:21 CET
Oh, and did I mention how much I loved it?
KnitWit | July 19, 05:21 CET
ETA - Also, exactly how much evil could the Pink Pugilist perpetrate, really?
[ edited by napua on 2008-07-19 05:27 ]
napua | July 19, 05:21 CET
How can anyone kill Felicia Day?? It's impossible! There must be a sequel in which it's revealed that she has invincibility powers. Heh.
Wow. Will have to digest.
hacksaway | July 19, 05:22 CET
Oh. My. God. I can't believe how shocked I am. But I just didn't expect it to get so serious. Wow.
There so needs to be a sequel.
electricspacegirl | July 19, 05:22 CET
I do have conflicting thoughts on the act. I think it's a really interesting way to develop the story and I think it was really well done, but, for some reason, it seemed to me to not really fit with the rest of the show. In terms of music, the second act was my favourite, then first, then third. I don't know... I just felt like something was missing.
That said, loved the comedy, loved seeing David, Marti, and apparently Drew G and Doug (I'll need to rewatch). Loved most of it.
Sorry for the odd ramble. I need to watch it again, in order to fully process.
Knuckleball | July 19, 05:22 CET
Three years without live-action Joss, and we still fall for every syllable - and always will.
*tears* damn you.... love you.... and always....thank you.
petranef | July 19, 05:22 CET
I do agree with jkaiderash about Act II being the best musically. Just a great overall show/episode/webisode?
phoenix1023 | July 19, 05:22 CET
Fredikins | July 19, 05:23 CET
Wait, I get it. The death ray needs work.
[ edited by Radaar on 2008-07-19 06:03 ]
Radaar | July 19, 05:23 CET
I loved that Mutant Enemy got to do his grr argh thing, I have missed it.
Did anyone else notice the writers taht played the evil league of evil? Douge Petrie, Drew Goddard?
Nalliac | July 19, 05:23 CET
okelay | July 19, 05:24 CET
swanjun | July 19, 05:24 CET
Pointy | July 19, 05:24 CET
dgjedi | July 19, 05:24 CET
Good work, Dr. Horrible team. You ripped my heart out and stomped on it, and I loved every minute of it... until I saw the gaping hole in my chest.
korkster | July 19, 05:24 CET
So. like. Wow. wow. really wow.
Loose Deckplate | July 19, 05:24 CET
I am looking forward to the soundtrack CD and DVD.
HydeMe | July 19, 05:25 CET
Need to see many more times to come to grips with all of it though.
witaria | July 19, 05:25 CET
was not expecting that? I obviously should have been, this is Joss we're talking about, and yet...
It was just...
Did that...
Gwuhznuh?!
uptheapples | July 19, 05:25 CET
Dunno if that sounds lame, all I know is that I love it and it hurts.
broodyangelcakes | July 19, 05:26 CET
*
*
*
*
*
*
That was nowhere close to getting tears out of me, maybe 'cause I just didn't connect to the characters on anything more than a superficial these-folks-are-funny-and-sweet way, but without getting heavily invested in 'em. I knew not to get too attatched, but if one of the main three had to bite it, would rather it be Penny than the two bringing the most comedy. And I'm not surprised it happened, though I would've rather had more fun and lighthearted evildoing. Save the pain for a sequel, y'know? Anyone else kinda feel that way? After the first and second (and I was perfectly fine with the awesome anger in the second one), I wanted more of that feeling.
Felicia Day had a sweet voice, is pretty, and I liked her speaking lines too, but...the show can still go on without her if they make more. That was a shitty death though, for her. And oh man, "Captain Hammer will save us"...ouch.
If it had just been Hammer's fault, cool, I could just hate him some more (though I love what he brings to the story and Nathan continues to rock), but it was Billy's fault almost entirely. Sure, Hammer provoked, but Billy's the one who decided to pursue villainhood and build a death ray and attempt to use it and yeah I realize the logic of the whole thing is sillyness, but if you're gonna go for drama that heavy, then the fans can take it seriously when it pertains to the dramatic parts.
[ edited by Kris on 2008-07-19 05:33 ]
Kris | July 19, 05:26 CET
I'm kind of in shock. Kind of in mourning. Definitely in awe.
(sniff!)
Nebula1400 | July 19, 05:26 CET
The only thing it needed to make it a true Whedon creation was a girl in a box.
ShimShamSam | July 19, 05:27 CET
Was that Drew Goddard in the wig at the Evil League of Evil table? Loved seeing Marti Noxon and David Fury as those ridiculous newscasters. I note that Ben Edlund is thanked in the closing credits. I wonder in what way he contributed.
And the thoroughbred of sin really was a horse!
Oh, so sad. I can't bring myself to watch it again immediately.
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2008-07-19 05:56 ]
phlebotinin | July 19, 05:27 CET
Mirit | July 19, 05:28 CET
I'm still in shock like the rest of us. Maybe some coherence in the morning.
Lioness | July 19, 05:28 CET
Racoon Boy | July 19, 05:28 CET
swanjun | July 19, 05:29 CET
embers | July 19, 05:30 CET
Lady Brick | July 19, 05:30 CET
lanora | July 19, 05:31 CET
[ edited by crazygolfa on 2008-07-19 05:32 ]
crazygolfa | July 19, 05:31 CET
Calleyzkat | July 19, 05:31 CET
Plus side, Nathan did a great job with his exit. And Felicia. And Neil.
I hate it. In the way that I love it. I can't cheer though.
korkster | July 19, 05:31 CET
(Oops, I meant the second-to-the-last song...)
[ edited by floofypooh on 2008-07-19 05:58 ]
floofypooh | July 19, 05:32 CET
So evil. Evilest League of Evil. Could've at least given her another solo first. Wow.
hacksaway | July 19, 05:32 CET
As for that other thing, well yeah, it's Joss. I should have known it would either be that, or Penny jumping through the air doing karate kicks. Still, to end a musical comedy like that. The man bends genres and does not pull punches, that's for damned sure.
AlanD | July 19, 05:33 CET
All I can say: Don't let it end this way.
(Hey. That almost rhymed. Well... It rhymed, but it had no rhythm.)
TheGamut | July 19, 05:34 CET
tabin | July 19, 05:34 CET
It was Brilliant, just Brilliant I Loved it. I'm going to have to watch it over and over now, bring on the DVD I want to purchase it now.
Great stuff Whedon brothers, Congratulations!
Crypto | July 19, 05:34 CET
Fucking brilliant. Really, truly.
Pointy | July 19, 05:35 CET
floofypooh | July 19, 05:32 CET:
Well, if you have to channel anyone, why not Sondheim?
(I think I'll go watch Sweeney Todd now.)
[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2008-07-19 05:37 ]
AmazonGirl | July 19, 05:35 CET
alittledarkcorner | July 19, 05:36 CET
One song in the middle was incredibly Sondheimesque -- I assume Joss wrote that one since he's such a huge Sondheim fan. The opening song seemed less like a musical... I'm wonding if Jed wrote that one?
At the risk of blasphemy, I'll say I was somewhat disappointed by Act III. Acts I and II were so lighthearted and tongue-in-cheek, but Act III didn't have that air of lightness. I'm all for broodiness in other Joss works like BtVS, Angel, etc., but Dr. Horrible seemed to be a more fun piece... until Act III.
SteveP | July 19, 05:36 CET
You know they're going to hold college courses on this mushortio alone.
I loved the music. Want to watch again, but I'm not ready. Makes it harder to choose a t-shirt.
Honestly, I liked Nathan's song. Sure, they were sheep, but he seemed to come to a little bit of a realization of helping people... he grew in his own way.
Craft services! *said in anger*
korkster | July 19, 05:37 CET
Her response was, "Yes, please. I’ll do craft service if they need it!"
Now I understand what she meant! :^(
floofypooh | July 19, 05:38 CET
Not sure how if I like it yet, maybe I need a few more viewings.
I can't lie though, I'm disappointed. I think Act II was my favorite, definitely.
EDIT: Update: So I watched again and really after thinking, it really couldn't have ended any other way. It was poignant and perfect. I think I was sucked into the happy-slappy disney-esque quality of the musical-ness of the first 2 acts to remember this is Joss and it has to be Joss-y. It caught me off guard and I freaked out a little bit. Who would have thought your typical supervillain-musical would give you so much upon which to ponder and reflect?
In the end, I loved it. LOVED IT!! And I want to thank Joss & co and the cast and crew for their numerous talents!! THANKS!
[ edited by Linnea1928 on 2008-07-19 06:01 ]
Linnea1928 | July 19, 05:39 CET
Succatash | July 19, 05:39 CET
Silly me!
theonetruebix | July 19, 05:40 CET
crazygolfa | July 19, 05:40 CET
ShadyLane | July 19, 05:40 CET
Canonical | July 19, 05:41 CET
That was honestly just amazing and the best ever!!
I so loved this and I want more and I don't care how you un-kill Penny, just get her back and make more and more and more of this. No, not a Broadway musical trapped in New York.. maybe a full length feature dvd musical... something that the whole world can enjoy.
Thank you so much for the wonderful adventure. Much love to all the Whedons and Cos and the Actors and everyone.
Kisses
Hee | July 19, 05:41 CET
okelay | July 19, 05:42 CET
Thanks J,J,M and Z!
And can the Emmy voters just watch this instead and just give NPH the damn award already?. Sheesh!
TamaraC | July 19, 05:42 CET
Second act: Better.
Third act: Disappointing.
Overall: Good...but...just good.
BAFfler | July 19, 05:43 CET
witch_kat | July 19, 05:43 CET
Then again, I'm a bugger for downbeat endings.
SoddingNancyTribe | July 19, 05:44 CET
Loose Deckplate | July 19, 05:44 CET
okelay | July 19, 05:44 CET
And I, too, heard a good bit of Sondheim influence.
(I liked that Bad Horse's real name -- if one can believe the credits -- was Dobber.)
palehorse | July 19, 05:45 CET
In a thematic, story sense it worked perfectly. Thinking back on the whole thing, the ending seems entirely inevitable. But it's hard to remember that when it still feels kinda like you took a blow to the chest :(
It's important to note that nothing I said above will in any way dissuade me from wanting a soundtrack, DVD, and sequel, right now this minute! See how he/they get me?
BlackEyedGirl | July 19, 05:45 CET
Ed R | July 19, 05:46 CET
SoddingNancyTribe | July 19, 05:46 CET
Frak me, hacksaway. I didn't even see this the first time through.
theonetruebix | July 19, 05:46 CET
Please, Joss? Just one happy ending?
Genia | July 19, 05:46 CET
LiLi | July 19, 05:47 CET
I sent Felicia a message that pretty much sums up my thoughts right now...Joss clearly has issues with dirt on the carpets, because he's always yanking the rug out from under us...
As one of the little people (crew guys) who got hit really hard by the WGA strike, I have to give props for doing something like this. If he wanted to make a statement, this is the way to do it. No real studio involvement? Check. Low budget? Done. Debuting it independenlty on a fledgling medium and focusing on a less-than-mainstream genre? Gutsy and with gusto.
Best of all? It looks and plays as well as anything produced on TV.
There is a reason Joss is up there on a pedestal. Neil, Nathan, Felicia...all heroes to New Media.
Pardon me, I think I need to go watch it again...
Anyone else already playing the how-will-the-sequel-work game?
[ edited by zeitgeist -signature removed- on 2008-07-19 05:52 ]
SuperScottNJ | July 19, 05:47 CET
jubal lives | July 19, 05:47 CET
Ok, but other than that, I'm speechless. Somehow I'll hold off until I can purchase this on iTunes in the morning. Um, something else incoherent. Wow.
flak | July 19, 05:48 CET
maxsummers | July 19, 05:50 CET
"You notice each Whedonverse ending gets bleaker and bleaker?"
Do you mean as far as the characters dying, like a person ending ? Or the conclusions of each series/film ? I'm not gonna tackle every single character death (Fred's soul-destroyed-in-the-fires-of-Illyria's-rebirth I would say is the bleakest Whedon death. Given that souls exist beyond a shadow of a doubt in the Buffyverse, it means she was completely destroyed unless you consider Illyria's trace memories of her a form of surviving)...but as far as each project goes...
"Chosen" we got Anya dying (that hurt the most), a bunch of Potentials dying (okay "Millie" dying was depressing too), Spike dying (unless you knew ahead of time he was gonna be in Angel Season 5, then not quite so sad), and the end of the town...but otherwise it ended on a hopeful note.
The Angel finale (I can't believe I forget the ep title), I dunno if it should be included, since it wasn't the intended series finale (then again, the comics for both Buffyverse properties complicate this whole "ending" thing anyway). But since it's what we got...Lindsay dead, Lorne depressed and wanting to leave, Eve...who cares...I can't remember if anything else really sad happened...I dunno, I think Buffy's finale beats it for bleakness (c'mon, they would've beat that impending doom...apparently they did or are in the process of doing so, if you've read the Season 6 comic. I haven't).
Firefly had "Objects in Space", an episode full of hope, so no bleak there. Serenity counts as the proper/makeshift finale to that though, so yeah, you've got Book, Wash, and a whole lotta people dead...It did end on a life-goes-on hopeful not though, like Buffy.
Anya's death in Buffy gutted me, so I think that wins for personal bleakest series/movie finale (sure, she got 1000 years, but).
If we're including comics, objectively, Fray ended pretty bleakly as well. With the reveal of who killed Loo and the reveal about Urkonn...she was kinda left completely alone there at the end, with the exception of maybe her sister having her back.
I know Joss frequently switches tone/gears in many of his projects, but those are all dramas at their heart with comedic dosages. Dr. Horrible is comedy/nuttyness that evolved into a drama the more we saw of it, which...yeah, I just don't get as attatched so easily when it's presented that way.
Kris | July 19, 05:50 CET
(and I'm assuming you've all seen it if you've gotten this far, but SPOILERS)
SCREW THAT.
I knew . . . I KNEW Joss was gonna kill off Penny. He ALWAYS kills off one of the beloved good guys. He doesn't NOT know how!! It's his ONLY PLOT TWIST.
I loved Angel and I would KILL (seriously, try me) to have more Firefly, so really, to anyone who might take exception to this little rant, I have all the love in the world for Mr. Whedon for creating wonderful worlds . . . but can't he write ONE THING with a gorram happy ending?! JUST ONE. This had it written all over it! Cute, spoofy, funny, sweet . . . it would have been lovely! But no, "One Trick" Whedon has to kill off the sweet, innocent, flawless homeless shelter girl to teach us the same lesson we learned in every other piece of work he's done.
Everyone who was surprised that she died: HOW? It's the same trick he pulled in Serenity. And three times in the last season of Angel. And how many times in Buffy! I would have been surprised if everyone LIVED . . . pleasantly surprised!
So, review: I loved this entire little online flick. Brilliant. Until the end. Then it got predictable. And then SUCKED.
Happily Ever After. TRY IT. Seriously.
Batman1016 | July 19, 05:51 CET
"You notice each Whedonverse ending gets bleaker and bleaker?"
Also, each Whedonverse thing gets shorter and shorter!
Buffy got 7 years...
Angel got 5....
Firefly got less than one, and a movie....
Dr. Horrible gof 45 minutes....
I just hope they don't say, cancel Dollhouse 15 minutes into the show. :-P
thespian | July 19, 05:51 CET
The final shot - kills me dead. I fucking love it.
crossoverman | July 19, 05:51 CET
I know we shared some great times together. Like the "Objects in Space", "Doppelgangland" and more, but I think it's time we go our separate ways.
It's not you, it's me. I just can't take much more misery and heartache. It's just too much. You create such wonderful and truly engaging characters. I get attached to them, and then, you kill them. It's for my own good. It affects my sunny disposition.
Best of luck in the future,
crazygolfa
PS: You know I'm a sucker for punishment, when does Dollhouse begin.
crazygolfa | July 19, 05:51 CET
theonetruebix | July 19, 05:51 CET
Nightmare -- ha!
First time through I was devastated. Second time through I could only think of what comes next. There needs to be more to the story. This would act as a great setup to the story of Dr. Horrible and the Evil League of Evil. (Leading to his eventual, painful redemption of course.)
If I think of it as a prologue it doesn't hurt so much.
Oh, and I hate the homeless
ness problem, too.
witaria | July 19, 05:51 CET
So...the end. I seem to be thinking that it returning to the blog at the end makes it feel to me as though it never happened. He's sans garb after all. I'm sure someone else can straighten me out on the subtleties I'm probably not picking up.
sportforredneck | July 19, 05:52 CET
That said, I've turned quite a few people onto the series, and some of them have just been Jossed for the very first time.
[ edited by highandrandom on 2008-07-19 06:08 ]
highandrandom | July 19, 05:52 CET
I loved Acts I and II, and this one seemed to be a disconnect with Act III somewhere. Where did all the lighthearted dialogue go? Usually I feel more balance, but I just felt depressed after watching.
Maybe once time passes and I watch the DVD, my opinion will change. I hope so.
piggiesfly yay | July 19, 05:52 CET
But then I remembered that this is Joss, and that would have been a cheap cop out.
zz9 | July 19, 05:53 CET
Batman1016 | July 19, 05:55 CET
As for how the sequel will work, frankly, I don't think Penny's death really would hurt the main story at all if they made another one. She told Dr. Horrible in the second act that it's not that things get better, it's just that everything happens, and worse things happen than happen to you. That implacable, not optimism, than blind hope had to go if he was to be an actual villain.
The ending was good, and it didn't hit me in the gut as much as it did other people in this thread. Frankly the darker turn that was starting last act was more interesting than the high quality, but slight, comedy of act 1. Techincally, I have problems with how the final bit before Penny died was handled (I found it oddly muddled, and inevitable in a more writerly way than a firm dramatic one,) but his killing her, however accidently, was sound.
I don't have the same "downer" feeling as many people do when characters in these types of things die. Especially a character we've only watched for such a short time. But that's my two cents.
[ edited by rabid on 2008-07-19 05:56 ]
rabid | July 19, 05:55 CET
But this didn't leave me satisfied, either. Just very sad.
Which I guess is the point.
It felt like kind of a non sequitur. I think it will feel less like one, once I watch all three parts together. Which I absolutely do not have the resolve for tonight. Maybe Sunday. (I'm having a pretty pretty princess party tomorrow, and somehow I feel like watching this will not put me in the right mood for that.)
Kiba | July 19, 05:56 CET
witch_kat | July 19, 05:43 CET
What's all this we?
I'm perfectly fine with the ending, pain and all.
In fact, if it'd been a "happy" ending, I might've been kind of disappointed.
Look, Dr. Horrible is a villian. A low-rent, bargain basement villian--with a crush on a girl--but a villian none the less.
Capt Hammer is a "hero". He's a flat-out jackass, but he's still the "hero".
Dr Horrible is trying to get into the Evil League of Evil. Not the Salvation Army. And he's willing to do anything to get in.
He was going to kill Capt. Hammer, who kind of did deserve it, but still. Killing. To get into an elite Club.
In the end, Dr. Horrible got what he wanted. But a price had to be paid.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
I'm just sayin'.
[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2008-07-19 05:57 ]
AmazonGirl | July 19, 05:56 CET
Angel's going out (heh) swinging, the gang had their last good day, they're ready, and they're charging forward - momentum, positivity.
By contrast, nobody has what s/he wants at the end of Dr. H - Capt. Hammer's a basket case, Penny's dead, and Dr. H. had been made aware of the price he's paid for getting what he thought he wanted. That's bleak. And brilliant.
SoddingNancyTribe | July 19, 05:57 CET
Tonya J | July 19, 05:57 CET
TheGamut | July 19, 05:57 CET
I just said the same thing to my son. It's like a song from "Sweeney Todd," or the witch's lament in "Into the Woods."
Nebula1400 | July 19, 05:58 CET
Funny how we got THAT out of the writers' strike.
ahem.
Casira | July 19, 05:58 CET
I immediately watched it again, knowing what was to happen, and the tonal change was not handled sloppily. It worked perfectly. I think people weren't initially approaching this as the vicious social commentary that it is, and that might account for some disappointment. I mean, this sucker cuts into society in a deep, deep way. It chastises the media, hero worshipers, people who aspire to empty positions, everyone who watches on the sidelines. I mean, no one is left unscathed by Dr. Horrible.
It is a brilliant work, and the best film of 2008. (Yes, I've seen The Dark Knight. I was not expecting Dr. Horrible to trump it, but...well, Joss has a funny way of getting around expectations.)
I really wanted Captain Hammer to die. He's the villain of the piece, and I can think of few villains more utterly loathsome.
But, hey, there were still hysterical moments. Basically anything with Captain Hammer was fried gold.
Oh, and I'll be transcribing the lyrics again. E-mail me if you want them.
UnpluggedCrazy | July 19, 05:59 CET
Even without the massive jolt to the heart, it just didn't seem to pack the same kind of punch as the other acts. *shrugs* And Dobber (Bad Horse) didn't look very menacing. :P Nathan sung well, though. :D
*sits in silence*
Braeden Fireheart | July 19, 06:00 CET
I love it. Now I want a sequel.
electricspacegirl | July 19, 06:00 CET
I don't think that means it never happened. I think it means that he got everything he supposedly wanted, he's a feared and celebrated supervillain, but it's all basically an act now, one that he's trapped himself in.
That last shot is who he really is now, hence the lack of villain garb.
theonetruebix | July 19, 06:01 CET
cabri | July 19, 06:02 CET
But there is no question that I loved this, seriously loved Loved LOVED this! And I will have to buy the DVD for everyone I know!
Thank you Joss & friends!
embers | July 19, 06:03 CET
Having watched a second time, the ending does seem fitting. Dr Horrible(I almost called him The Doctor...) got what he wanted. and like many people before him, he realized it wasn't what he hoped. but he can't go back. It's a great setup for a sequel as well. I'll be patiently (ok,not so much) waiting.
okelay | July 19, 06:03 CET
AlanD | July 19, 06:03 CET
And man, I'm really really sad...like, Anya/Wash/Joyce's death sad.
maxsummers | July 19, 06:04 CET
To the contrary.
theonetruebix | July 19, 06:04 CET
ETA: That will probably come later.
zeitgeist | July 19, 06:05 CET
That last shot was perfect. Almost the best moment in the entire thing. Amazing.
palehorse | July 19, 06:05 CET
Both Amazongirl and UnpluggedCrazy said different aspects of how I feel more eloquently than I could. I think that a work with some honest to god meaning to it will last longer than if it ended happily for Dr.Horrible. Penny in a lot of ways to me felt like an archetype. A combination of the comicbook cliche model girlfriend and a almost unrealisticly hope filled optimist. If Dr.Horrible had given up his quest to make it as a villain to end up with her, I don't really know what the story would have been about dramatically.
rabid | July 19, 06:06 CET
Kiba | July 19, 06:08 CET
Loose Deckplate | July 19, 06:08 CET
C. A. Bridges | July 19, 06:09 CET
jubal lives | July 19, 06:09 CET
Nah, Dollhouse is going to be all hugs and puppies, laugh a minute, happy-fest. Trust me.
/Or maybe not...
zz9 | July 19, 06:10 CET
Come on, this is a musical about a supervillain. There are only two possible endings. It ends badly for him, or it ends well for him, which is bad, because he's a villain.
Joss chose C, all of the above. Brilliant. Heartbreaking. Very Joss.
jsnell | July 19, 06:10 CET
Some may,eventually, after years and years of fight and suffering, but it is still rare.I wonder if Penny would've accepted Billy knowing his alter ego was Dr Horrible.
okelay | July 19, 06:11 CET
C. A. Bridges | July 19, 06:11 CET
MAN!
i mean, nomatter how much you say "it's joss, of COURSE something like that's gonna happen", its still a shock and horror. not sure how i feel about ti yet; act 2 was better musicly, but man...
miramel | July 19, 06:11 CET
That last shot was perfect. Almost the best moment in the entire thing. Amazing.
palehorse | July 19, 06:05 CET
I liked his new Evil League of Evil duds.
No more white. He's lost his "virginity". The red coat and black gloves were a spot-on choice.
Someone here mentioned that it's an origin story. Absolutely.
And that last shot of him on his "Blog" was heartbreaking.
AmazonGirl | July 19, 06:12 CET
Bad Horse was so bad.
nutterbudgie | July 19, 06:12 CET
Penny bringing the frozen yogurts to the laundromat, waiting for Billy Buddy, who never comes. It just kills me.
phlebotinin | July 19, 06:13 CET
The Hammer groupies transformation is also confusing to me. Sure, they had a problem with Penny. But I took that to be envy. But their becoming Dr. Hammer groupies evokes a fickle fandom connotation I wouldn't associate with the whedonverse.
napua | July 19, 06:13 CET
BlackEyedGirl | July 19, 06:13 CET
And the last scene is just killing me.
maxsummers | July 19, 06:13 CET
Happily ever after? Find such fairytles in your local library under L for Lies :)
You know that Whedon will always send you on a rollarcoaster. Otherwise it's just not worth it.
There's no way Whedon would let this be the end. He knows that he has created a Horrible Horrible monster and there's money to be made and rabid fans are rabid.
Hee | July 19, 06:14 CET
Yes. When the paramedics carted off Penny and he sang, "I'm fine," it gave me the shivers.
witaria | July 19, 06:14 CET
Loved the last bit in the Evil League of Evil Headquarters. And, of course, the final shot of the blog.
Sigh.
Knuckleball | July 19, 06:14 CET
UnpluggedCrazy said:
"I think people weren't initially approaching this as the vicious social commentary that it is, and that might account for some disappointment. I mean, this sucker cuts into society in a deep, deep way. It chastises the media, hero worshipers, people who aspire to empty positions, everyone who watches on the sidelines. I mean, no one is left unscathed by Dr. Horrible."
I loved that aspect of it throughout all three acts, I'm sure it'll continue if they do sequels. They set it up nice with Billy blogging about it and hating on "the status quo", so it's in the story too beyond just the omniscient storytellers (brothers Whedon) telling us what they think, very cool.
I just think it could've ended slightly differently and still been effective. I liked it a lot though. Acts 1 and 2 are untouchable and I loved the humor of Act 3 as well in addition to a couple of the songs.
Kris | July 19, 06:14 CET
I'm curious as to what 'Dead Bowie's' evil villain claim to fame would be. Fooling people into believing that he's really David Bowie and then charging them for autographs and photos?
NikkiSixx | July 19, 06:14 CET
So, yes, it was incredibly sad, and shocking, and Act III was not so lighthearted, but now that I can watch it all as one, I really do love it.
Also, Nathan is HI-larious! and NPH gives me chills like no other. Yikes...
nicetomeatyou | July 19, 06:15 CET
zeitgeist | July 19, 06:15 CET
Absolutely the best moment of the entire thing - and it makes me forgive Act I for being a bit bloated and not terribly engaging to me. This last moment gives the whole story depth - and the songs in Act III are probably the best of the whole series.
When does the DVD come out?
crossoverman | July 19, 06:15 CET
Heh, I said much the same thing on Twitter a bit ago. All those poor cosplayers scrambling now.
Can someone confirm something to me? Dr Horrible knows the weapon's going to backfire, right?
He does appear to be trying to warn Hammer, yeah.
theonetruebix | July 19, 06:17 CET
phlebotinin | July 19, 06:17 CET
here's my 2 cents before i go off and have a good cry
1, I SHOULD"VE known!!! Jenny Calander, joyce, anya, fred, spike, tara, walsh, the list is endless of people we've loved then lost. (doesn;t make this easier)
2. Yes i know it fits in well with the story, to make him a REAL villan not just a wanna be joss needed to kill his soul. God knows i've seen it happen at work, people work so hard to become surgeons at the cost of their family, then they loose everything they actually care about and have nothing but their career so they pour themselves into that, so i get him now pouring himself into what;s left (still not any easier)
3. i'm still sad :( damn you whedon you always leave me in this sate
4. how are we going to have sing-a-longs with an ending like that???
ok i'm off to have a good cry, then some frozen yougurt (which i've been craving since act 2 aired). then i might attempt a rewatch if i'm not still in shock
April_fool82 | July 19, 06:17 CET
I want that red lab coat.
Loved the grr argh at the end. And why wouldn't they leave things open? Leaves them with a world of opportunity to pursue if it's as successful as I think it has been. *waits for international itunes so I can pay them their dues, literally*
Ivalaine | July 19, 06:17 CET
Succatash | July 19, 06:18 CET
swoopy | July 19, 06:19 CET
whedongeek | July 19, 06:19 CET
zeitgeist | July 19, 06:19 CET
I don't want to do that just now. I'd rather just enjoy this third one a few more times, and then when the DVD comes out watch it again that way. I imagine it will track much better that way.
rabid | July 19, 06:19 CET
Of course he can bring her back! He's a mad scientist.
But you know she'll come back all messed up & he'll have to kill her again and then we'll all be really miserable. :)
jcs | July 19, 06:19 CET
swoopy | July 19, 06:19 CET
And Rosebud is a sled.
AmazonGirl | July 19, 06:20 CET
witch_kat | July 19, 06:20 CET
I need the soundtrack, now.
Definitely very Jossian.
Loved the cameos.
So sad that it ended, I want more...
Numfar PTB | July 19, 06:20 CET
"It´s ok, Captain Hammer was...". What's the last word?
maxsummers | July 19, 06:20 CET
I loved the ending. It made it real. We all make sacrifices for our biggest dreams.
feliceg | July 19, 06:20 CET
theonetruebix | July 19, 06:22 CET
zeitgeist | July 19, 06:22 CET
shinygroovyj | July 19, 06:22 CET
Pure amazingness Joss.
Way to go.
Lockescythe | July 19, 06:23 CET
discordia | July 19, 06:23 CET
DVD now please :)
JadeHand | July 19, 06:23 CET
crazygolfa | July 19, 06:23 CET
But that's my POINT: Serenity's end was a rollercoaster. Cordy dying in Angel, and then Fred, and Wesley at the end . . . THAT was a rollercoaster. This was PREDICTABLE. It didn't have impact (at least, not for me), and it was so SIMPLE.
I'm a (admittedly amateur, but I'm told very talented) writer. I can write a tragic death. That's easy. It's writing an improbable way for everything to work out and everyone be fine that's hard. And being a work of Whedon, THAT would have been the surprise.
Sure, it's an origin, it's tragic and beautiful. But I'm really just tired of tragic and beautiful from Joss. I wanted fully lighthearted and fun with a few serious moments. It would have been a change of pace.
Maybe I'm just still pissy about Wash.
Batman1016 | July 19, 06:23 CET
Thanks zeitgeist!
[ edited by maxsummers on 2008-07-19 06:24 ]
maxsummers | July 19, 06:23 CET
April_fool82 | July 19, 06:24 CET
[Cartman] Oh my god, they killed Penny! Those bastards.[/Cartman] :)
[ edited by crazygolfa on 2008-07-19 06:26 ]
crazygolfa | July 19, 06:25 CET