What a beautiful cover (obviously based on La Pieta). Why should Spike get all the Christ imagery?

redeem147 | June 17, 17:19 CET

That is one powerful image.

Buffyfantic | June 17, 17:24 CET

Amazing image, although I guess it would be more disturbing if we didn't know which issue it was for. Spoilers on just in case anyone is reading the thread despite the warning for the link.

Knowing that this isn't the final issue of the series makes it fairly clear that the title character isn't in all that much danger. Basically he's either nowhere near as badly hurt as it is made to appear or he really is near death and is somehow going to be made a vampire again. I'm going to guess at option two because I've always believed that he would end the series with pointy teeth and a bumpy forehead. Either way it's obvious Angel is going to be around for the next issue, in one form or another.

Despite that though, still an impressive piece of artwork.

The Pagan | June 17, 18:12 CET

I agree The Pagan. My preference is for Angel to be remade as a vampire (though with a soul and no curse)
or be like Connor - a superbeing. But I suppose that Wesley could make with the mojo again and heal him.

resa | June 17, 18:44 CET

What a beautiful cover (obviously based on La Pieta). Why should Spike get all the Christ imagery?

Well, Angel already had at least one Pietà in the TV series (after Buffy and Kendra help him down off the cross in "What's My Line") and he's been crucified a couple of times as well (by Jeeves in "The Trial", by Holtz in "Lullaby" and lately by Illyria in the comics...) I'd say he's got the "suffering for humanity's sins" thing down pretty good by now. :-)

beergood | June 17, 19:33 CET

I will really be shocked if Angel stays human.In fact,if they really wanted to surprise me with a big twist,it would be to keep Angel human past ATF because I think so many just expect Angel to be re-vamped and returned to the way he was before ATF by the end of the series.

Personally,I hope he stays human because at this point in time IMO,re-vamping Angel seems almost an anti-climax to me.I think it would be interesting to explore a human Angel,post ATF rather then reverting him back to the status quo at the end of this story.

But we'll see how everything plays out.

That cover is one of my favorites so far though for ATF.

Buffyfantic | June 17, 20:42 CET

Would Angel have to be "revamped" at all if they get everything out of hell and back to their own dimension? I mean, he seemed to magically become human upon arriving there, mightn't he magically become a vampire again by returning to his own dimension? It would even involve that whole self sacrifice Angel is so fond of. To save LA, he has to give up humanity.

Just a thought.

newcj | June 17, 21:41 CET

And, just like that, I have a new pretty wallpaper for my desktop. (Kakashi is safe back in my bloody folder)

Ahh, and my family think I need more bright colors in my life. Why bother with such pretty blacks and blues? *tries not to recall one not-so-funny prank done by near-ex-friend changing her background into pink hearts*

Mirage | June 17, 22:02 CET

I'm pretty "anti" on the idea of Angel becoming a vampire again, but at least this would be a dramatically interested way to do it. A couple things that leap to mind, though --

-- if Angel chooses to be made into a vampire again, sympathy with him over his broody, can't be human, can't be with Buffy/Cordy/Whoever because he's a vampire = *poof*.

-- for Angel to choose to be made into a vampire again, would be a diametric reversal of everything he stood for and argued so convincingly to Darla in "The Trial". I daresay it would be pushing toward the dreaded OOC label.

-- Would Angel, or anyone else, do this, knowing what he'd *be*? Angelus. You don't tug on superman's cape, do you? We've got nothing yet to establish that anyone around there can reensoul him.

-- Assuming there'd be a way to reensoul him, I'd be pretty uncomfortable with the idea that it would be Spike's version, no happiness clause, etc. It would basically feel, to me, as if the point of the exercise had been to un-curse him having his soul.

He already has the best deal he could ever ask for, and ever has asked for -- he's human. I find it hard to believe, based on the long history of the character, that he wouldn't rather die a human than live a vampire. I hope he stays human, whether he lives or not, because I think there are more and interesting stories to tell of him as a human than there are of him as a vampire at this point.

KingofCretins | June 17, 22:03 CET

KingofCretins, really good points. I won't respond to all of them to save turning this entire thread into one long page of blankness but pretty much agreeing to all you suggested. That said...

I seriously doubt that it will be a choice Angel is allowed to make. I'm getting the feeling that it will either happen by default of his death because he was somehow never truly human in the first place, along the lines of the idea newcj suggests above, or that it will be forced upon him, Gunn being a likely candidate to do the vamping honours in that case.

Mirage, your black and blues comment just pretty much described my entire wardrobe. :)

The Pagan | June 17, 22:21 CET

Back when I read multiple comics titles I found things like this neither disturbing nor spoilery.

DaddyCatALSO | June 18, 00:45 CET

I don't understand why speculation is in spoiler font. This makes no sense.

TamaraC | June 18, 01:14 CET

Me neither. How long is ATF is supposed to run for? 15 issues? I can't see Angel popping his clogs or turning back into a vamp several issue before the big finale.

Simon | June 18, 01:19 CET

I guess there's just something very tempting about the invisibility thing. As long as you all don't go turning into pudding for your pains.

Angel already chose to give up his re-humanized self once,no?- so he wouldn't be weakened, and he could "help" Buffy, and you know, erase her memory and turn back time and all. It would be seriously not interesting if he were to make a similar decision for similar reasons again. So I don't suppose that will be happening- unless it is in quite a different way.

[ edited by toast on 2008-06-17 23:46 ]

toast | June 18, 02:45 CET

I'm not going to join in on the speculation just yet, but that is one sweet cover.

UnpluggedCrazy | June 18, 02:53 CET

Regarding the use of spoiler text above, just trying to be as considerate as possible was all. Even speculation can be a spoiler if it's based on information or images that haven't become widely known yet and I try to be as careful as I can be for the sake of the spoiler-phobic who still somehow think that it would be a good idea to click on the comments of a spoiler warned thread.

The Pagan | June 18, 03:25 CET

The Pagan, I don't think the normal whedonesque user needs to be protected that much. We tend to be a smarter than normal bunch. And speculation on a spoiler is not a spoiler. It is speculation.

TamaraC | June 18, 03:39 CET

TamaraC, whilst I'm glad you feel you can speak for the other 6691 registered members (not to mention all the rest of the non-members who check this site out for Whedon news) if it's all the same to you I'm going to assume that maybe there are some out there that might appreciate a little caution, regardless of how smart they may or may not be. It's not as if it's any real hardship on my part to make the effort.

And obviously speculation is just speculation but when it's based on a spoiler image then that speculation becomes spoilerific, in my opinion. It's like me not spoiling that the Oceanic 6 get off the island but then going on to speculate on how I think they will get back. Kinda defeats the object of me keeping any part of it a secret, y'know?

[ edited by The Pagan on 2008-06-18 00:59 ]

The Pagan | June 18, 03:58 CET

I thought maybe you would take the opinion of Simon, the moderator, but if you know best then fine. I'm sure you know better, in the month you have been posting here.

Cheers.

TamaraC | June 18, 05:10 CET

Re Angel's state after After the Fall. I'm torn. I don't want him to be a regular Joe, but I can't see a way to make him 'other' that would work. I guess it's a good thing that I'm not writing the story isn't it ;).

resa | June 18, 05:22 CET

I'm more than happy to listen to any opinion, TamaraC, be it yours or Simon's. Given that, as far as I'm aware, this isn't an issue of moderation or of going against Whedonesque rules but rather individual ideas about what we consider to be spoilers and how we present our posts in that respect, I'm not entirely sure why you raised that point. I'd take the same care with how I post my thoughts at any board so I'm not sure why you raise the issue of how long I've been posting here either. I've been reading the threads on this site for a lot longer than I've been a member and so I'm well aware of the rules of Whedonesque.

I'm sorry that we don't agree on this topic but unless I'm told that I'm breaking some unwritten rule and as long as I believe that I'm doing it for the right reasons then I'm really not sure why it's such a problem. I'm sure that highlighting spoilered out text isn't all that much of a hassle for you and if it is then I invite you to ignore any comments I make that include them in the future. Trust me, it won't kill you to not know what I'm thinking. ;)

The Pagan | June 18, 05:41 CET

I've said it in one or two other threads, but I'll chime in again:

I deeply dislike Angel being human in this series. I will loathe it if he ends this series as human. To me, the character's identity is so completely entwined with being a vampire, and the metaphors inherent in that, that you can't take that away and have it feel right. It's like making Buffy not a slayer, or making Xander into a superman. Obviously, some things have to change in a story, but some things have to stay fundamental as well.

I guess at root my concern is that this could well be the last time we ever see Angel, and to me it feels like he hasn't really been there at all; half of him is missing.

jlp | June 18, 09:58 CET

Use of invisible text gets a bit silly when the other, non-invisibled, half of the comments refer to the same things anyhow. What's even sillier, of course, is arguing about it.

SoddingNancyTribe | June 18, 10:48 CET

TOTALLY AWESOME COVER!!! So sad. Poor Connor and Angel. :(

Jossfan_21 | June 18, 17:59 CET