Whedonesque Mobile : Comments on 15650 : (SPOILER) Tidbits on Dollhouse from Production Weekly (pdf).

(Note: Putting this in the comments rather than the entry where I originally had it, because I think there was some concern over spoilers appearing in the main text of posts recently?)

Of the premise itself it says "the operation is highly illegal, and under constant threat from a determined federal agent on one end and an insane rogue Active on the other". That last bit, I believe, is new information. Also given is an "early April" start date.

The One True b!X | March 02, 09:40 CET

Yes, thanks, b!X, anything (including spoilers) in description and extended description are currently sent through the RSS feed. So people reading us through RSS readers were getting an eyeful :)

zeitgeist | March 02, 09:59 CET

Ok, my brain is overly tired, because I've got "Wait. Spike's what in the whatment?" "Insane, base" vying with "What's a rogue demon?"...and I end up wondering what an insane rogue is.

ShadowQuest | March 02, 10:26 CET

:) I just remarked upon the "Wait. Spike's what in the whatment?" line earlier this evening. Good stuff. And you need only watch Felicia Day's The Guild to find out about an insane rogue. See? I can turn anything into a plug.

zeitgeist | March 02, 10:31 CET

I'm psyched about the description. I've been less than thrilled with the oft-reported "secret agent" angle, which imho is (a) innacurate, (b) too familiar (see Alias) and (c) too narrow. The premise has always reminded me more of a "holodeck", allowing for limitless scenarios with drama, action, comedy, romance, etc. Y'know, the usual Joss hodgepodge. =)

jam2 | March 02, 10:38 CET

This description made me way more excited than it should have. Especially the bit about the rogue agent. And I'm also starting to understand the whole Eliza-becoming-self-aware thing, which was confusing me earlier. Needless to say, I am super... I'm trying to think of a word that hasn't been used yet. Stoked! Okay, there's a reason it hasn't been used, but that's what I am.

Jobo | March 02, 11:05 CET

In other news from that PDF... they're remaking "The Stepfather". But WHY? WHYYYYYYY? That's the first film I ever saw Terry O'Quinn in - he was fucking scary. Stop ruining my cheesey 80s horror childhood, Hollywood!

Also - great find, bix! So is this Rogue Active the same person as the FBI agent who's undercover as a Doll (as per the sides) - or another internal threat???

crossoverman | March 02, 11:20 CET

Okay, off topic it maybe but UK Whedonesquers should look at the project two paragraphs down. A US remake of Some Mothers Do Have Em?

zz9 | March 02, 11:25 CET

b!x - the consideration is much appreciated. At the moment, the RSS feed shows everything written in the post, even if inviso-texted. I got spoiled for the end of Joss' arc of AXM - mind you, with all the delays, I did already have a very strong suspicion.

catalyst2 | March 02, 11:45 CET

Whoohoo! So looking forward to Joss' return to the small screen. Can you even imagine the places he can go with this new series? My toes and fingers are just a'trembling.

Come on, Joss!

Madhatter | March 02, 13:11 CET

Okay, off topic it maybe but UK Whedonesquers should look at the project two paragraphs down. A US remake of Some Mothers Do Have Em?

Okay... I'm done. The world is ending. That's clearly the fourth sign of the Apocalypse. See ya, world - loved living with you, but when there are signs, you gotta...

*leaves planet Earth*

See ya, suckers!

crossoverman | March 02, 13:11 CET

*joins crossoverman*

gossi | March 02, 13:23 CET

gossi, don't make me point my potato gun at you, there's easier ways to get them mashed.

Did I mention I'm smiling ear to ear? Shame on me!

Madhatter | March 02, 13:44 CET

A US remake of Some Mothers Do Have Em?

*cringes with memories of the first one*

Is there room on the rocket leaving with Gossi & Crossover man?

But I'll miss Dollhouse! - Ok I'll stay

The Do That Girl | March 02, 14:43 CET

OK, yer a Philistine The Do That Girl ;), "Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em" is an absolute classic BUT virtually impossible to remake because Michael Crawford is Frank Spencer, no-one else could play that part as well IMO.

My own sure-fire sign of the End Times is when they try to remake 'Porridge'. That's when i'm getting off the world (whether they stop it first or not).

OK, the fact that the 'Dollhouse' is illegal and that the 'actives' (definitely) volunteer is starting to make it sound more like a story about why someone would do that, rather than the kind of "one woman against an oppressive system", gradually self-realising revolutionary that I previously had in mind. Not sure which I prefer to be honest, wait and see.

Saje | March 02, 15:01 CET

Does anyone else think that if Joss, Tim etc weren't part of this show, the Dollhouse premise would sound a bit silly?

Simon | March 02, 15:07 CET

No but I think it'd sound like total T&A exploitation.

Body swapping/consciousness transfer is a bit of a sci-fi staple as are investigations of what it means to be human - e.g. whether robots should have rights, where the line lies between us and not-us etc. - and this just seems like another take on those ideas. Course, to some I guess those ideas may sound silly to start with (mainly non sci-fi fans i'd imagine).

Saje | March 02, 15:22 CET

Yeah, but didn't the idea of a Valley Girl cheerleader slaying vampires sound ridiculous?

However, I honestly don't think this premise does; it could go all kinds of intriguing places. Though if Joss and Tim weren't the ones doing it, I don't know how many of those places we'd actually get to visit.

UnpluggedCrazy | March 02, 16:43 CET

I think the premise sounds a lot less silly than Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Firefly, to be honest. Saje, I wouldn't presume the Actives are definitely voluntary. I mean, I could be wrong, but if I was making the show I think it'd be an interesting left turn at some stage to suggest that's not the case.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-03-02 15:00 ]

gossi | March 02, 17:08 CET

I'm joining UK Whedonesquers on the "Get Me Out of Here" rocket, having just spotted the Frank Spencer thing myself. Ooh Betty, please, NO! If Fox didn't keep cancelling good stuff would they really have to scrape the bottom of the 70s BBC sitcom barrel? Aaargh.

Gill | March 02, 17:56 CET

In my mind, Buffy and Firefly can be sold easily. She kills vampires, they're space cowboys. Dollhouse from its description doesn't seem to lend itself easily to a one sentence premise. It has the potential to be an intelligent, complex genre drama on a US network. Which may present a problem when selling the show to the media and the public. Though it did work for Lost. Anyhoo enough babbling. Those were just some thoughts in the back of my head.

Btw I await the US remake of On The Buses with great glee.

Simon | March 02, 17:57 CET

Gossi, yes, but with a forced entry of some kind you definitely turn into La Femme Nikita territory and some distance should be kept if a new Madeleine is going to be involved.

If like Xander would say "Bitca is the new black" then I'm looking forward to the list of the best screen bitcas from E! or someone.
Personally if Adelle is a combination of the heart of Madeleine from LFN, the smile of Lilah with a new plan and the compassion for her fellows of Admiral Cain, I'll be very happy.

Those of you leaving should at least be as polite as the dolphins that said "thanks for all the fish".

jpr | March 02, 18:03 CET

Alias sold, and if you look at the premise of that it's unbelievably complicated in many ways. She works for some of kind of secret service, although it's the bad guys, so she deflects to the good guys secret service - she thinks - in the first episode. To spy on the bad guys, who she is also still working for.

I definitely think you have a point though, Simon - part of the problem here is you can't say 'Echo's a spy'. Or 'Echo's a hacker'. Or whatever. The premise is very broad which makes for good TV (it won't have the same problems Tru-Calling had), but it also makes it a more difficult sell.

But let's face it, I don't think anything joss has done fits into the box of making the marketing department happy. Which is probably why his shows work creatively.

gossi | March 02, 18:06 CET

"I 'ate you Butler !!" *gurns*.

You sell 'Dollhouse' the same way they sold 'Alias', sex. Fish people in by their dangly bits (or compelling bumps, as applicable ;) and then show them what the show's really about.

(they didn't sell 'Alias' based on its complicated plot, they sold it by having Jennifer Garner dance/kick ass in her underwear in the first 2-3 episodes - the complicated plot followed after)

Saje | March 02, 18:45 CET

Hmmm, I wasn't even aware of male "Actives" living in the Dollhouse before.

CaptainB | March 02, 18:55 CET

I love the "ostensibly volunteer" angle--grayness potential all over.
And I definitely think sex will sell this. People will think Dollhouse=Brothel & will presumably be interested in what goes on there (especially when they get a look at Eliza). And they'll watch, and find something more compelling, complex and funnier than they expected, and it will keep enough audience to go on for seven seasons...(please).

jcs | March 02, 19:25 CET

Exactly jcs, I hope Joss isn't above a certain amount of "linguistic legerdemain" to snag people then he can keep them with his trademark great characters, stories and dialogue.

And yep, fair point (which I think gossi also implied upthread) "ostensibly" can hide a multitude of sins. I was assuming it meant they weren't coerced into it but they don't need to be coerced to not strictly be volunteers (in fact, as with prostitution it raises the question of "voluntary" exploitation and whether such a thing is even possible). And I guess it's even possible they could've been coerced but then fake contracts etc. drawn up to make it look as if they weren't (that'd be the extreme end of "ostensibly").

[ edited by Saje on 2008-03-02 19:24 ]

Saje | March 02, 21:34 CET

Ooh.. getting excited about Dollhouse.

I had as much fun reading the rest of the list. Many many things to comment on, but I won't go there, too much.

I had the same thought about "The Stepfather" why oh why? The "Mentalist" plot read a lot like "Psych" and there is a pilot for a new take on Jekyll and Hyde "Inseparable" produced by the twisted mind of Shaun Cassidy, and starring Toby Stephens.

Also, notice that the "Some Mothers" remake is being produced by BBC Americas Worldwide. Which means that it will no doubt show up on BBCAmerica, just like Season 2 of "Dancing With the Stars".

Znachki | March 02, 22:27 CET

It occurs to me, and for those who have seen the casting sides, that the rogue Active likely is Alpha. Said character is not amongst the characters described by Ausiello, but he appears in one of the sides acting, well, pretty roguish.

The One True b!X | March 02, 23:19 CET

I was thinking it was Victor, bix. Although Alpha makes much more sense.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-03-02 20:29 ]

gossi | March 02, 23:26 CET

I was thinking it was Victor, bix.

That was my original thought until I re-discovered the Alpha/Paul scene.

The One True b!X | March 02, 23:29 CET

I think the premise would sound highly ridiculous and exploitative in other people's hands - but this is where years of trust in Joss and Tim has paid off. You know in anyone else's hands, Eliza Dushku would be dressed up like a hooker every other week - interspersed with nurse's uniforms and French maid's outfits. Joss and Tim are much higher-brow than that - I suspect the men will be dressed up like that an equal amount. Equality now and all...

crossoverman | March 03, 00:29 CET

I suspect the men will be dressed up like that an equal amount.

Now go re-read the Paul and "Keene" scene with that in mind.

The One True b!X | March 03, 00:37 CET

I think it is pretty easy to condemn these faceless unnamed "other people", but I wouldn't mind seeing Rob Thomas or JJ Abrams take on this concept. Joss and Tim do not hold the patent on not being pigs. I'm just saying.

TamaraC | March 03, 01:09 CET

Rob Thomas would probably be the worst person to be put in charge of this concept, given his patchy record on sexual politics in "Veronica Mars". I'm not saying he's a pig, I just think this is a tricky damn concept that I have faith (heh) Joss could make work.

JJ Abrams would direct the pilot and then leave the show to other people - it's his way.

Ron Moore could make it work. Alan Ball, maybe. It's a highwire act, this one.

crossoverman | March 03, 05:52 CET

We will have to agree to totally disagree on that, crossoverman. I think Rob Thomas would have a brilliant take on it. Of course, it doesn't at all matter since he isn't involved. I just think that maybe there is more than one or two folks in Hollywood who could manage to deal with a show like this without it becoming a T&A spectacular. It is shortsighted to think otherwise.

TamaraC | March 03, 06:18 CET

And I agree... Joss isn't the only one, which is why I gave examples of who I think could do it. I just happened to disagree with your assessment of Rob Thomas.

crossoverman | March 03, 08:08 CET

March 02 2008