Whedonesque Mobile : Comments on 15627 : (SPOILER) Jo Chen's cover art for Buffy #16 (huge spoilers ahead).

I keep avoiding spoilers because I'm routinely so far behind (either two or three issues behind now), but being so far out of sync is actually what led me to not care anymore about being spoiled. So this time, I clicked. In the end, I think we mostly suspected this before it was revealed, anyway, yes?

theonetruebix | February 28, 11:25 CET

Dunno. Like the Alliance I didn't see this one coming. But I know there's been some very fevered speculation if this crossover will tie in with the future shock events of After The Fall.

Simon | February 28, 11:29 CET

Funny you should mention AtF. I was just doing some reading on Buffy/Fray, and on some forum somewhere, Lynch posted that he swears the two have nothing to do with one another.

(And I guess maybe I just assumed that Twilight going on about the end of magic was an early indicator/hint of a Fray tie-in somewhere along the way.)

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-02-28 08:34 ]

theonetruebix | February 28, 11:32 CET

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

I never suspected this at all. I think I'm about to shit my pants.

xanderharris | February 28, 11:34 CET

Verrry innnnteresting.

jclemens | February 28, 11:35 CET

Oh. My. Gods!! I normally stay away from spoilers, but I don't really count cover art as truly spoilerific. But this just makes me anticipate the next issue SO MUCH more! I loved Fray and always wondered if she would make here way, in any form, into the canonical Buffy timeline. I'm quite excited for this.

InevitableTraitor | February 28, 11:36 CET

always wondered if she would make here way, in any form, into the canonical Buffy timeline

It's funny, but when I first started suspecting an eventual Fray link in Buffy Season 8, I had a fairly twisted thought: What if the Fray future isn't the future of Buffy's world, but the future of the alternate reality of Vampire Willow?

theonetruebix | February 28, 11:44 CET

It's pretty mind blowing this will be happening. Can't wait to see Fray's reaction to another slayer, Buffy's reaction to the world in the future and Buffy's reaction to how the slayer line ended up..

vampmogs | February 28, 12:04 CET

Link not wanting to work for me..no account. But this is so cool. I read Fray when I found out that season eight was being done in comic book form, always wanted to see more of her story.

[ edited by alexa on 2008-02-28 09:14 ]

alexa | February 28, 12:12 CET

alexa, try this link to a scan of it from Wizard.

theonetruebix | February 28, 12:15 CET

Holy trumpets. That's pretty crazy. I have NO clue where they could be going with that plotline. But as always, I can't wait to take the ride.

dingoes8 | February 28, 12:35 CET

What if the Fray future isn't the future of Buffy's world, but the future of the alternate reality of Vampire Willow?

Interesting thought, but I don't know that it would work with what mentions of Buffy there are in Fray. She's never mentioned by name, but there's something with a slayer defeating a bunch of demons with the help of her friends (which wouldn't have happened if Buffy never came to Sunnydale). If I remember right, the frame looks kind of similar to one of the final shots of Not Fade Away, so that may be a bit of a tie in but I don't know.

Also there is the matter of Fray using the Scythe. Yes it could have been excavated by somebody else but it seems that it took The First to get anybody to actually look for it. Maybe I'm just rambling on and probably sound pointlessly argumentative, but it just doesn't seem to fit with Bizzaro Buffyverse.

InevitableTraitor | February 28, 12:44 CET

Hmmmm how come the same Scythe can exist in two different places at the same time?

Simon | February 28, 12:59 CET

Wasn't there already somewhere (perhaps a fan fic, or a small online comic at IDW or DH) a crossover "present-future" with Angel and Fray or Buffy and Fray? I seem to remember something like that (probably linked here since I don't look for infos on Whedon-stuff anywhere but here)...

Le Comit� | February 28, 13:25 CET

Simon, I'm guessing Buffy brought her scythe with her to the future, where Fray already also has it... dunno, though.

Le Comite, there was a fan comic crossover between Angel and Fray. It was actually pretty good!

nathanieletc | February 28, 13:49 CET

Wow.
Has the Wizard article been put online yet? Or is it still magazine only. Would someone who read it mind telling us what was in it?
So may I assume that Joss is writing the next arc, or is this another one issue story bridging arcs?

Numfar PTB | February 28, 14:23 CET

edit: nm, someone already provided a link besides the Myspace one, I just read the thread too fast on account of I was excitable at the news =p

[ edited by dispatch on 2008-02-28 11:42 ]

dispatch | February 28, 14:40 CET

O.O

Why did I leave my Fray TBP at home!

Vortigun | February 28, 14:42 CET

Wow, when I saw "Huge Spoilers Ahead" I thought "How big could it be? Someone dieing on the cover? Faith was drowning Buffy in one and that turned out fine!" I did NOT see that coming. Wow. Never read Fray though... Nobody around me carries it. Guess it's time to hit up Amazon huh?

Turbofist911 | February 28, 14:43 CET

I've been pondering (well, dreaming of) this for a while.

Joss is now officially my Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy- all wrapped into one shiny package.

And here is a better quality image for y'all.

missb | February 28, 15:29 CET

The high res cover can be seen on the previously linked site now as well for those who do not have a myspace. It's not the main link...just one that someone posted after. High Res Cover/Info

Anyway more importantly...I am both excited and nervous about this cross-over! There are so many things that can go wrong with time travel and continuity. I hope things don't get mucked up. I have faith in Joss though. I'm hope that Buffy meets Fray...the Fray after Fray#8. So even more future Fray hehe. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense... Also the only way there can be two Scythes is if Buffy carried hers to the future with her. What's up with Buff's prom-y looking dress?! I'm certain Buffy will not like this future world. Can't wait to hear more about this. I posted the excerpt from the issue on my site, but I don't know if I'm allowed to put it here.

[ edited by CowboyGuy on 2008-02-28 12:39 ]

CowboyGuy | February 28, 15:29 CET

Wonder if Mel will share with Buffy the tale of how "magic" ended, the one Urkonn told her. Also, world with decadent watchers, not pretty.

Numfar PTB | February 28, 15:47 CET

True! I wonder how this will affect her fight against the ending of magic...

Maybe the events in Fray will not come to pass after all or something. Or it will happen differently since Buffy has seen the future, and can try to prevent it.

CowboyGuy | February 28, 15:50 CET

*whew* Finally I can speak. Thanks to my "source" I've known this was coming for about six months now. I was sort of skeptical at first, but the fact that the original art team is back in the saddle again has kept me excited and desperately trying NOT to let the spoilers slip. Now that it's been officially announced I can finally relax and geek out with everyone else.

Awesome cover, btw. And I can't wait to see what Melaka thinks of Buffy.

Haunt | February 28, 16:44 CET

Okay, I saw this cover and had NO IDEA what it meant.

I guess this means I should read Fray?

likeadeuce | February 28, 16:50 CET

I'm guessing Melaka will be aware of who Buffy is as a result of what happened in that short story in Tales of The Slayers.

Simon | February 28, 16:50 CET

Awesome, my favorite slayer makes a return, i can't wait to see where Joss takes this. And kudos to Jo Chen for a fantastic cover she deliveres yet again.

Vergil | February 28, 17:13 CET

This also allows Twilight to be a character from Fray? Just a thought. :)

Hmmm it just occurred to me that because of the huge spoiler-ness people aren't commenting on the art! I think it is amazing... Prettier than #10, but I'm not sure it surpasses #5 in my eyes. I just loves how symbolic and evocative The Chain's cover was.

[ edited by Vortigun on 2008-02-28 14:24 ]

Vortigun | February 28, 17:21 CET

I don't know what to think of this I really don't. On a pure 'Oh that sounds cool' level then thats the first thought.

Then when I think more about it, the more I'm not sure I like it.I will give it a look. But this may push my Buffy comic buying from 'sure, why not' to 'why should I anymore'

angeliclestat | February 28, 17:52 CET

Okay, YES. Awesome. And it makes a kind of sense with the whole plot that Joss would take Buffy to see the consequences of Twilight's actions. But, Mel! Wooo! Also, the whole "not being connected" thing. Mel's not connected to the other slayers either. Not even through dreams. Which brings me to....

And, um, what if Twilight is Mel's twin-brother? 'Cause, um, he would "know" Buffy and her moves...what with him having the slayer dreams of her and her fights and all.

pat32082 | February 28, 17:56 CET

Can't wait for this.I knew Fray would eventually tie-in to this but I didn't expect in this fashion.

Dunno. Like the Alliance I didn't see this one coming. But I know there's been some very fevered speculation if this crossover will tie in with the future shock events of After The Fall.
Simon | February 28, 08:29 CET

Brian Lynch over at the IDW forums says there is no connection between the Angel and Spike future flashes and this.He dosen't want anyone disappointed or getting their hopes up for Spike or Angel to show up in this and he's not trying to keep a surprise hidden like he did with ATF #3.After The Fall is very self-contained and does not bleed over to this or vice-versa.

Buffyfantic | February 28, 17:56 CET

I was like, "Ooh, pretty picture. Hey, that kind of looks like Fr-- HOLY SHIT A FLYING CAR!" Guess you could call it a double take. That's an amazing cover. And an awesome concept.

GreatMuppetyOdin | February 28, 18:22 CET

That was maybe the coolest thing ever.
And Twilight is way too big to be Harth, unless he has majorly bulked up in the meantime(like the difference between Angel Season One of BtVS and Season 5 of AtS) plus he grew to be like a foot or two taller. Cause Harth was shorter than Mel if I remember correctly.

theMidnighter | February 28, 18:49 CET

Yea, I wish I hadn't of clicked on that link. That's what I get for ignoring the spoiler tag.

hobnail | February 28, 19:03 CET

Hmmmm how come the same Scythe can exist in two different places at the same time?

Maybe there's more than one?

I didn't expect the tie-in this soon. Or to involve Buffy being in a world of flying cars. I guess I should go read Fray sooner rather than later now.

Sunfire | February 28, 19:28 CET

Latest guess...Twilight is River Tam's evil vampire alter ego. (Talk about a fan geek-out crossover!)

Gorgeous cover.

IwantitnowIwantitnowIwantitnow!

alexreager | February 28, 19:37 CET

Lovely, lovely, lovely!

MadeToLoveJoss | February 28, 19:44 CET

How come the same Scythe can exist in two different places at the same time?

I mean it all really depends on the specific story's time travel philosophy, but basically it's not the same scythe. It is and it isn't, but what Buffy has is the Scythe that she personally excavated and has been carrying around for a while. Fray has the same Scythe but after it has already gone on its long journey and gotten to goat-face demon guy who gave it to her. Just as long as Buffy had it with her when she left her time, it should all work out.

InevitableTraitor | February 28, 19:56 CET

Rather, maybe the question should be "How come the same Scythe can exist from two different times in the same place?"

jclemens | February 28, 20:29 CET

First thing I thought, Who is that girl? Oh My GOD! It's Fray...umm why is Buffy in the furture?? This is probably not good.
but awesome artwork, and I can't wait to read it.

til | February 28, 20:53 CET

Wow. What an awesome development. And Jo Chen's artwork is amazing, as usual, and I think this may be her best Buffy cover yet.

cfeuille | February 28, 21:41 CET

It took me a minute to realize who it was too. Then I almost choked on geeky eagerness. Twilight has something to do with Fray's world.

whedongeeky | February 28, 22:31 CET

Haha. For a second I thought "What? Buffy and Faith? So?" And then, "Waaaiiiit a minute!"

Wow. Goosebumps.

Samantha | February 28, 23:03 CET

So, like... what if I haven't read Fray?

The Dark Shape | February 28, 23:07 CET

Well then, looks like you should read it ASAP.

I just got done saying in another thread that I'm not a comic fan, but Fray is absolutely worth the read.

[ edited by Samantha on 2008-02-28 20:16 ]

Samantha | February 28, 23:10 CET

It's available as a TPB.

Also... ROCKETSHIP!

Craig Oxbrow | February 28, 23:11 CET

Well, as with most things, people who have read Fray will obviously get more of the references, but I doubt it'll be necessary to have read it. I mean, Buffy hasn't, so I'm sure Mel will get her up to speed.

pat32082 | February 28, 23:13 CET

Fray is really good. And since it's nicely collected in trade paperback, you don't have the agonizing wait between issues.

Maddyanne | February 28, 23:16 CET

The Fray paperback is out-of-print, so I can't exactly run to the bookstore and grab it, sadly.

The Dark Shape | February 28, 23:18 CET

Try used. Half.com, bookmooch.com, etc.

Samantha | February 28, 23:19 CET

My library system has it, The Dark Shape. Maybe yours does too. I know my comic shop had it not too long ago, too. I think you stand a good chance of finding it if you hunt around.

Sunfire | February 28, 23:36 CET

Amazon.com (US) associates have 3 copies of Fray for $20 or under and half.com has one for $17.96. Prices go up and way up from there. Glad I got mine when I did.

Bobbi | February 29, 00:01 CET

Wow. I just had my comic store get Fray for me a month or two ago... and now it's out of print? I expect it might not stay that way.

jclemens | February 29, 00:10 CET

Wow, this is very exciting. I kinda wish I didn't know the spoiler - but it's the front cover! So I figure this would have leaked long before the issue hit the stands anyway... and it has.

I thought I was excited about Goddard's arc! I still am, but this is... just... cool.

crossoverman | February 29, 00:13 CET

Okay, I peeked. I love Fray and am very excited/intrigued by with this development; the issue/fissure between its timelines and BTVS S7's looks to get resolved, and we get more futureSlayer to boot. Awesomeness.

Chen cover is de lovely, too, although I think Buffy might be at a slight disadvantage in that getup (last time she fought in a prom dress things didn't go so well, if I recall)....

"How come the same Scythe can exist from two different times in the same place?"

Because it's made of quarks, silly ;) *crickets*

Wiseblood | February 29, 00:21 CET

I'm trying decide if Mel is trying to stab Buffy or if they are both falling towards the same target. The paniced expression on Buffy's face could be because she doesn't like the falling, and Fray's really intense "hooray stabbing!" look could be directed towards whatever they are falling towards.

Nolan | February 29, 00:31 CET

Personally, I would guess that the scythe is what facilitates the time travel, since it's a common denominator in both time periods.

I think it's interesting that, much like when Faith first appeared, Buffy is wearing an almost atypically feminine outfit to better contrast with her fellow Slayer.

Lady Brick | February 29, 01:23 CET

pat32082: I like that guess! I'm putting my money on Twilight being Mel's twin brother. =D can't wait can't wait!

5X5B | February 29, 01:23 CET

Seeing this cover was, for me, like finding out Michael Bay was kicked out of hollywood, Uwe Boll was imprisoned for crimes against humanity, The Sarah Connor Chronicles was granted seven seasons with no threat of cancelation, and Dollhouse was a major hit, with 20 million viewers every night! :)
Best Cover Ever!

xerox | February 29, 02:22 CET

Wow. Nothing else to say. Just wow.

Valentyn | February 29, 03:14 CET

Seeing 60 comments intrigued me. Plus since I'm online quite a bit, I figured I would find out. FRAY!!! So wonderful that these two gals are finally getting together. Gorgeous cover per usual by Chen. She has such a gift. For all you silly lads out there who haven't read Fray, I suggest you do. It is quite good. My dream is for it to go to the big screen with Kristen Bell as Maleka.

Harmalicious | February 29, 03:34 CET

Just an FYI, the Wizard issue says:

"July trumpets the return of Jo Chen, but also heralds the return of both Karl Moline and Fray to the Buffyverse! The Buffster squares off against her futuristic descendant in this four-part arc by Joss Whedon and Karl Moline, who first collaborated in 2003's Fray mini-series."

So they will be fighting each other at some point.

CowboyGuy | February 29, 04:38 CET

HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

I love it.

TheZeppo | February 29, 04:40 CET

1) Awesome.

2) Awesome++.

3. According to the Fray miniseries and 'Get It Done,' Buffy is the last guardian of the Hellmouth - the last of the line.

4) Kill me, Jossholes.

5) (def awesome
(jo-chen-paint (cons buffy fray)))

6) Kill me, programmers.

7) What a fantastic cover image. Jo Chen is really, really good at what she does.

waxbanks | February 29, 05:32 CET

Just a shot in the dark, as I've only seen the cover and not read any possible spoilers...

I'm looking at that cover and yes, that is pretty close to Fray's world. (Although it's a bit nicer IMHO.) However, what I really notice is that Buffy is in a nice frilly flowing dress and what appears to be dress heels.

Given what we've seen so far with future visions, dreams, etc., is it possible that this isn't a true interaction between Buffy and Fray, but something like the dream sequence from Graduation Day?

That's my guess anyway.

Irishrose | February 29, 05:35 CET

3. According to the Fray miniseries and 'Get It Done,' Buffy is the last guardian of the Hellmouth - the last of the line.

Well, she was the last guardian of the Hellmouth... before it collapsed in on itself. But, yeah, there's inconsistencies between Fray being the first Slayer called since Buffy's time - and the ascension of the Potentials to Full Slayers.

Joss shall clarify.

crossoverman | February 29, 06:09 CET

I always sort of suspected since the last episode of the series that some standard sci-fi trope happened. Like oh, one of these girls obviously must have ended up in some sort of time-freeze or whatever (magical or otherwise) and only died centuries later in order to call Fray and will presumably be clarified in the next miniseries.

Never expected even the off-chance they'd discuss it in some proper Buffy context though. Interesting.

orangewaxlion | February 29, 09:41 CET

Given the vast amount of time between Fray and Buffy, I don't expect it'll be hard to explain. Fray could simply have the history wrong. The Watchers Council isn't exactly around to keep track of these things anymore.

Or, for all we know, Buffy still will end up being the last slayer guarding over the Cleveland Hellmouth. :)

flakbait | February 29, 10:19 CET

i remember when i first read Fray (which was after season 8 had been anounced and a cross over of some kind was possible) and i turned to my friend and said "hey! wouldnt be awesome if....." and i didnt even need to finish my sentance coz we were both thinking it. so i've been quietly (obsessivly) hoping for this for a while now.
in saying that i do kinda wish i hadnt spoiled it for myself but i would have seen it on the DH website in a month or so....atleast thats my feeble attempt at justification anyway.

is it July yet?

shpedoinkel | February 29, 10:52 CET

Good. God.

I am fucking STOKED.

I was just telling my friend the other day, "The next time I see you, remind me to let you borrow Fray." Guess my timing was prescient.

UnpluggedCrazy | February 29, 17:48 CET

Happily Jo has put it up on her blog so I've changed the link as you don't need a Myspace account to view it.

Simon | February 29, 18:47 CET

First with the whole Buffy/Fray continuity thing, I think that Willow only activated potentials alive at the time of her spell. We might have superpowered infants and grannys, but they should all be long dead by Mel's time. We also learn in Fray that slayers stopped being activated by the 's spell after the demons and magic were banished from this dimension. The reason Mel was activated was because demons and vampires ("lurks") started coming back somehow. It was never explained how, so I hope Joss sheds some light on this in Fray II.

Now with the whole Season Eight/Fray/After the Fall crossover thing, I believe what Brain says about them being two different crossovers. Having said that, it's looking more and more to me like Joss is planning to wrap up the Buffyverse in the next several years. I still think there might be a Season Ten and there definetly will be post-After the Fall Angel stories when Joss and Brian are done wrapping up the main Angel vs. Wolfram & Hart/Key-Role-in-the-Apocalypse arc of the main series.

If this is what Joss is doing it shouldn't mess with Ripper should it be picked up as a regular series. It could take place anywhere from Season Six on.

JesusSavedIn01 | March 01, 02:21 CET

February 28 2008