Oh thank you, thank you so much! I've been looking for just this coverage!

embers | December 16, 03:50 CET

Got to love Joss!

Madhatter | December 16, 03:59 CET

..

[ edited by Love's Bitch on 2007-12-16 01:24 ]

Love's Bitch | December 16, 04:09 CET

This speech was Awesome! Thank you so much for posting.

Teacherdarling | December 16, 04:22 CET

Everytime I hear Crazy Eyes, I lay down and think of England. No wait, I mean Morena. No wait, that came out wrong.

gossi | December 16, 04:26 CET

By the way, I just wanted to comment on this one. Joss references one of the key differences between the last big strike being the Internet. I've actually seen a lot of criticism of Joss online for trying to embrace the Internet over the strike, or rather the way he's doing it - and really, I gotta say something on that one. First of all, I've seen little better suggested, or even in the way of suggestions. Secondly, people complaining about the direct action stuff going on? Picketing is direct action. If you want a voice in this, you're going to have to fight to make yourself heard. The AMPTP and studios have this thing called television, newspapers and entertainment media -- virtually all of which they own, in most of the developed nations on our fair planet. The writers? They have themselves. And us. And Youtube, and this little thing I like to call "the internerd". Things like Youtube and Fans4Writers are causing those writers to get a message out to a far wider audience than they would normally have. You can disagree with the individual messages getting out all you want, but the entire reason this issue has had the platform it's had (which can only, you know, grow) is because of how outspoken Joss has been, because of people like lexigeek, theonetruebix, dreamcatcher, RavenU and all those other folk who've gotten involved, because of the people dumping those - yes - pencils, because of the people making those Youtube videos... Etc.

It would be very easy for the writers to sit at home and for the fans to do nothing. Nobody would get upset then. But people would still be out of work, and they'd likely be out of work longer as a result.

And for fun - Tenious D sing a WGA rally. The first song is called "F*#k the bullshit".

gossi | December 16, 04:45 CET

"Fuck the Bullshit" is one of the best titles for a protest song i've heard in ages (then "The Government Totally Sucks You Motherfucker" came along, I dunno it's like buses, you stand around waiting for ages and then ... ;).

Why are people criticising him ? He'd be daft not to use such a potent tool. A lot of bollocks is talked about the net and how it's the best thing since sliced bread (it's only the second best, sliced bread clearly being useless without jam) BUT one thing it inarguably does brilliantly is balance the information scales which have traditionally skewed heavily in favour of TPTB (with their money and their numerous newspapers/magazines/TV stations etc.) and against the Mk I Human-on-the-Street.

It's the new printing press in that sense (so not surprising that it's causing upheavals, the printing press being what led to copyright in the first place). And I like that Joss and the writers are using the net against the people trying to use the net against them, the symmetry of it pleases me, it's pretty ;).

Saje | December 16, 05:05 CET

Well, there's critique that the studios simply don't care about the pencils, the websites, the demos - and that it's giving the media material the print saying 'Hey, look at these loser writers, pissing up a wall whilst people loose their jobs'. That's the line the AMPTP are taking, and of course that's feeding back into the media.

Any time I've been involved in direct action stuff - which has been, you know, a lot - the minute an organisation issues a statement like the AMPTP did recently is the minute they're in trouble, but don't realise it. I hope the talks start happening again and sense will prevail as there's a lot at stake for everybody.

A while ago, somebody I know was doing a lone protest at a health and safety executive meeting where they were doing a stitch up deal to sell out the staff with regards to workers safety in aid of corporations. He turned up to protest in the archway to the building, and obviously everybody walked past the protester on the way in not paying the blindest bit of attention. They didn't care. Up rolls two minivans after the meeting has started, barrow boards roll out the back, out rolls wheel barrows and some breeze blocks - the guy BRICKED THEM IN. That got their attention.

gossi | December 16, 05:42 CET

I just can't believe that this stonewalling contempt/attitude thing is the best the AMPTP can come up with. Surely they have some kind of clever plan? But what is it? They certainly are not winning the hearts and minds of the viewing public- they're not even bothering to try to come off as nice guys in a tough bind. What's really up here?

Do they think they can survive with an all reality and music video programming schedule, for like, forever? Could they- with incredibly low expenses and no scripted shows? And no union actors either, maybe? Somebody tell me this couldn't work for them, please.

toast | December 16, 06:25 CET

The AMPTP has spent a lot of money to advertise fuzzy math, tell half truths, and out and out lies in Variety ads, which lead me to believe that they are only interested in convincing their stock holders, because the general public doesn't read Variety. They are also paying $10,000/month for a crisis management PR team, and I'm not really sure what they are getting for that money since Nick Counter's big negotiation plan (of rejecting all the writers' demands and walking out of negotiations while blaming the break down on the WGA) seems to have been planned before the PR firm was hired.

I have to believe that the AMPTP only really care about what their stockholders think, and as their stock values are falling I would guess they aren't impressed.

I actually am hoping that the courts or Congress will step in. I would love to see an independent audit of studio and network accounting practices. I would love to see an end to the union busting techniques and the beginning of serious contract negotiations.

edited to add Potential good news


[ edited by embers on 2007-12-16 04:10 ]

[ edited by embers on 2007-12-16 04:11 ]

embers | December 16, 06:38 CET

"The Government Totally Sucks You Motherfucker". Never before has punctuation been so important to a sentence. Saje, you always manage to make me laugh!

skeezycheeses | December 16, 07:17 CET

Wait'll you hear it sung to the tune of "The Carol of the Bells."

Pointy | December 16, 07:39 CET

Punctu-whatnow ? ;-)

That is potential good news embers, it makes sense for companies to negotiate their own deals in the interim (strangely, I doubt Letterman will start "negotiating" by walking out either). That article also mentions the WGA filing an action to try to split the AMPTP.

Here's an article (probably linked to previously somewhere) about why it's crazy that the WGA even has to talk to the AMPTP collective in the first place (hint: the studios are in competition - in other situations what they're doing would be called "collusion" or "price fixing" and is, y'know, bad ;).

Saje | December 16, 13:21 CET

Once David Tennant leaves, I think Joss should be the next Doctor. Cause "we got crazy eyes" is is very reminiscent of that line from The Christmas Invasion; "This here's a fighting hand".

Simon | December 16, 14:37 CET

And yet, Saje, all the AMPTP is doing is collective bargaining, just like the WGA. Not that I'm defending them, but it's reasonable they would want to do it that way, rather than let the WGA try to divide and conquer.

crossoverman | December 16, 15:05 CET

Well, it's obviously "reasonable" from their point of view crossoverman because it means the studios can't be played off against each other with individual deals, they've got themselves a nice little cartel going. From their point of view paying the writers absolutely nothing if they can get away with it is also "reasonable", that doesn't make it right.

It's basically anti-competitive behaviour, taking a free market and turning it into an effective monopoly. Ironically, given the rhetoric flying around, it's actually the AMPTP that're the un-American, anti-capitalism pinkoes ;-).

Cause "we got crazy eyes" is is very reminiscent of that line from The Christmas Invasion; "This here's a fighting hand".

Maybe we should just load Joss up with Satsumas and let him have at it ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2007-12-16 12:18 ]

Saje | December 16, 15:17 CET

Who, me crazy? Only on Fridays:)

Madhatter | December 16, 16:13 CET

The AMPTP tries to break the union, so the union is going to break AMPTP, by going directly to the studios. Is it true that by law the studios then have to deal with the union?

That's what I'm talking about. Get rid of the greedy blood-suckers.

electricspacegirl | December 16, 16:16 CET

Hah! That individual negotiation tactic is the best news in a long time on this! Thanks, embers. Won't it be great if they can get a "model agreement " or two, and then go after the others to match it? Then the employers would be in the position of being asked why they were holding out against the inevitable fair deal! Saje, in the early days of union organizing in the US, the corporations were able to use anti-trust laws for union busting. (Those days are over. But then again, the days of actual enforcement of anti-trust laws for monopolizing, price fixing, tie-in sales, ets. are pretty much gone, too.) I'm not sure it's ever been tried against employers' groups in a strike situation!

[ edited by toast on 2007-12-16 18:35 ]

toast | December 16, 16:30 CET

Is it true that by law the studios then have to deal with the union?

That's the question. The AMPTP don't think so, so I'd imagine it could end up going to court. Which would take forever to sort out, I'd guess.

Part of the thing which I don't think is entirely understood yet is that, yes, these companies have a lot of money to throw around. However, they also have handfuls of VPs (vice presidents) responsible for each business area - and I mean, financially responsible for their results - so there's going to be VPs who are hurtin' already. Think, you know, FOX VPs of Drama Development, that kind of thing. News Corp might well be telling AMPTP right now 'fuck the writers', but I'd imagine there's people who work for News Corp groups going 'I'm gonna get fired for these results'.

What needs to happen is to identify companies that are getting skiddish about the strike - they already exist - and also work out which companies are bullish still and who the VPs are who are going to be hurting from the strike. Then, you know, phone 'em up. Do a mass phone in to their office. Send them a letter. Get them making some noise back to the AMPTP.

[ edited by gossi on 2007-12-16 13:32 ]

gossi | December 16, 16:30 CET

The AMPTP tries to break the union, so the union is going to break AMPTP, by going directly to the studios.

Sounds almost word for word like what I said in the car last night when you were trying to understand the story. Who do I sue?

The One True b!X | December 16, 21:27 CET

Well, it was a good point. And I'll give you credit but you can't get residuals because it's the internet and we flunked math.

electricspacegirl | December 16, 23:10 CET

you can't get residuals

Curses! Foiled again. No one will let me impose my mad plans upon the world.

The One True b!X | December 16, 23:55 CET

I have to argue there Saje, I kinda think that sliced bread primarily requires butter. Which I guess makes the internet only the third best thing since sliced bread.

barboo | December 17, 02:47 CET

No, no, no. It's sliced bread, then the good stuff to go on it, then Joss, then the internet.

'cause...a loaf of bread, a show by Joss and the 'net.

ShadowQuest | December 17, 04:25 CET

I wish we could have seen the whole Joss speech in Boston. I don't claim to understand every nano thing about the strike issues, but I do think from what I've had to time to read and watch is that AMPTP is using every underhanded trick and ploy it has to undermine the WGA's position. I also think Joss, whether you want to say he's right or wrong (I think he's right on) speaks from the heart as only he can when addressing issues he believes in (see post about Dua Khalil or his acceptance of the Equality Now award).

I feel like the line from the song on the Done the Impossible CD, said song title I can't remember right now, but part of the line is, "I wish River was my sister ..." I wish Joss was my brother. I have so much warm, sisterly love for Joss it can't be measured (and I'd be the "older" sister Bwah ha ha! but not by terribly much). Actually, I already feel like he is my brother. He always steps up when something needs to be said and I feel a sense of (not proprietary) pride when he does.

[ edited by Tonya J on 2007-12-17 02:13 ]

[ edited by Tonya J on 2007-12-17 17:40 ]

Tonya J | December 17, 05:12 CET

I have a question for anyone who can answer: by ordering movies On Demand on our cable system or PPV in a hotel room, are we not honoring the strike? Are we robbing the writers of their rightful earnings and just putting money in the studios' pockets or is this NOT part of for what they're negotiating and is therefore okay?

OzLady | December 17, 05:20 CET

Oh and TonyaJ I love that song too: "And River oh I love River, I wish River were my sister, I'd fix her brain and keep her safe, like Simon says she's my meme"... But I don't think I could have Joss as a little brother, more like the little neighbor boy I used to baby sit for, which I guess is stretching it.... Joss is dead serious about this cause, he is working hard everyday, the only thing that will deter him is if someone bribes him with a dragon!

[ edited by embers on 2007-12-17 05:10 ]

embers | December 17, 05:47 CET

Love's Bitch put the whole thing on You Tube and told us about it on the other thread.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/14989#202270

(Sorry, I don't have time to relearn how to do the linky thing right now.)

It is really great. Maybe the link could be added to this one.

newcj | December 17, 05:59 CET

The linky thing which leads to the above-mentioned speeches, including Joss' full one.

The One True b!X | December 17, 06:05 CET

Riding dragons..... Was the guy on heavy duty medication? 'Cause how come we've never heard about the dragons before? I mean I agree with him totally, but I would have thought we would have heard about that demand here first.

Lioness | December 17, 06:41 CET

I thought maybe the craving for flying on dragons was the result of being jealous of Angel in After the Fall, cause that is one cool dragon!

embers | December 17, 07:12 CET

If anyone's interested in hearing Joss' entire Boston WGA Rally speech, along with the other ones as well, go here for mp3s.

bsearles | December 17, 07:36 CET

OzLady | December 17, 02:20 CET wrote : I have a question for anyone who can answer: by ordering movies On Demand on our cable system or PPV in a hotel room, are we not honoring the strike? Are we robbing the writers of their rightful earnings and just putting money in the studios' pockets or is this NOT part of for what they're negotiating and is therefore okay?

This question was asked over on the fans4writers forum and the response was from one of the writers. I quote, "We don't receive bupkus for on-demand, same as everything else."

It seems they do receive a few pennies from pay-per-view movies but not tv shows but that is a set ammount and it goes to the pension and healthcare funds of all the unions.

RavenU | December 17, 07:59 CET

Dragons! The dragon thing isn't new. Did you watch Buffy and Angel? ;)

electricspacegirl | December 17, 11:10 CET

OK, OK, sliced bread, (various) good stuff(s) to go on it, Joss and the internet, but apart from that what have the Romans ever done for us ? Hmm ?

Saje | December 17, 15:46 CET

This was a great video; Joss, as always, is totally brilliant.

And embers, thanks for that link, that really is spectacular news.

UnpluggedCrazy | December 17, 16:05 CET

Saje - education? aqueducts? :) I thought we were the Popular Front...

zeitgeist | December 17, 17:09 CET

*spits* Fucking splitters ;).

Saje | December 17, 17:20 CET

Two packets of gravel ;)

zeitgeist | December 17, 18:06 CET

By the way, the second part of AlphaTone's video of the ME Day is on YouTube now! Here's the link. There's also footage of the picnic and a Joss interview...

Valerie | December 17, 18:40 CET

"And River oh I love River, I wish River were my sister, I'd fix her brain and keep her safe, like Simon says she's my meme"...

Yes! Thank you Embers. Okay songwriters, get cracking on a "I wish Joss was my brother," song. Something with dragons, Romans and Acqueducts in it. Thank yew.

Tonya J | December 17, 20:42 CET

But no Vikings.

Willowy | December 17, 21:24 CET

Kissy th' face!

zeitgeist | December 17, 21:59 CET