Whedonesque Mobile : Comments on 13976 : Angel: After The Fall #1 gets November release date.

Anyone know of a particular reason why this book is gonna cost us an extra buck and be 8 pages less than the upcoming Buffy Season Eight?

WillowSlay | August 13, 22:49 CET

Well, I don't have any inside info, but it is from another company so their standard pricing model might just be different.

My guess is that it will retail for more because it's going to cost more to produce. This could be for a huge number of different reasons, from the actual printing/paper costs to the marketing budget to the amount they're spending on the talent. So who knows.

I'm so excited about this! I can't wait to read it, especially the Wesley bits. I miss Wes!

ladygrey | August 13, 23:15 CET

The internet is awesome. "Hey Angel's back!" Internet's first response: "that extra dollar is givin' me the vapors!"

It's Angel's return, everyone be happy!

Brian Lynch | August 13, 23:18 CET

Haha - the vapors. Brilliant. Don't worry, Brian, most of us know a good thing when we see it.

Any hints you can give us? (I doubt it, but it's worth a try.)

ladygrey | August 13, 23:22 CET

Oh Brian, you should know that everyone on this website is having a collective sh*t-fit over how excited we are for these comics!!

MySerenity | August 13, 23:24 CET

Some hints: Angel is in it. Definitely. Wait, let me check the script.

...

Yes, he's in it. He's the brooding handsome brunette guy, right?

Other than that, I will say that Angel has quite a year ahead of him.

Brian Lynch | August 13, 23:27 CET

WillowSlay, I believe that the IDW comics are relatively if not entirely ad free, hence the fewer pages, at least. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm happy, Brian Lynch! I'd gladly pay an extra dollar for some Angel continuation goodness. You won't find me complaining, no sir.

I wonder how truly definitively we'll find out in issue #1 who lived and who died in that alleyway. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some lingering vagueness on that score, although I hope not. After (non-canonical) The Curse and Old Friends, I'm ready for that part of the story to be settled so other parts can move forward....

As for what happened to "all of L.A." after the events of NFA, wouldn't the unleashed evil hordes of the Senior Partners affect more than L.A.? :) I always chuckled a bit whenever I thought about the various apocalypsi (there's your plural of apocalypse, Riley!) that periodically plagued Sunnydale and L.A. and how they never seemed to affect one another. For example, surely news of Jasmine mania would have hit Sunnydale? I know the Scoobs were busy with the First and all, but surely they'd have heard that the governor of California had ceded power to the glorious Jasmine? Hah. I know, I know, we're not really meant to go down this path, but still. It's fun to do it from time to time. It'd be fun and especially pleasing if both comics series, AtS and BtVS, respectively, will be allowed to be more "aware" of each other, even just a little, tiny bit.

[ edited by phlebotinin on 2007-08-13 20:32 ]

phlebotinin | August 13, 23:29 CET

I think the question is not, "why is Angel eight pages shorter than the upcoming Buffies?", but "why are the upcoming Buffies eight pages longer than standard comics, including the previous issues of Buffy?" I hadn't noticed that before, but then, I generally avoid solicitations out of spoiler phear.

Brian: I'm sold. Even for an extra dollar.

jlp | August 13, 23:29 CET

Squeeee! (I'm sure I can find an extra buck around here somewhere. That call to Mom is just gonna have to wait.)

Fitz | August 13, 23:31 CET

I also have an issue with this situation. Technically, November is still the Fall. I feel used and betrayed and swindled and conned. Couldn't just have called it "During the Fall" or "Nearly After the Fall" could you ? Do you guys hate truth, is that it ? Cos that's like hating America. You might as well have punched Abraham Lincoln in the nuts and shoved an apple pie in Mom's face while you were at it.

IDW comics are almost always $3.99 WillowSlay, it's their standard price. In fairness, their covers are usually stiffer than standard comics, the paper is very high quality stock and is often "sealed" (i.e. coated) so that the colours really shine (they're also, as phlebotinin mentions, largely advert free - or at least the ads appear at the end, not within the story). Also also, they're a much smaller company than Dark Horse, let alone Marvel or DC and so the same economies of scale probably don't apply.

Congrats Brian, looks great, can hardly wait ;).

Saje | August 13, 23:37 CET

I can't wait to see Angel again! There; not exactly a sophisticated and carefully nuanced response but a pretty accurate summation of my feelings. As for the people involved in the comic, well, I couldn't be more pleased - roll on November!

silvius | August 13, 23:41 CET

squeeeeee!

April | August 13, 23:45 CET

Looking forward to the start of this.

Buffyfantic | August 13, 23:49 CET

Say what you will about that extra dollar, but it's going to put a lot of people off.

I'm not entirely convinced that IDW is such a small company any more. I reckon they could afford to charge lower prices on at least some of their titles - although I would admit it would be somewhat riskier for them (I suspect the higher price tag is what's kept them afloat whilst other new publishers have gone under over the years).

daylight | August 13, 23:50 CET

Saje: your first paragraph? Hilarious. Alas, you captured the spirit of crankiness that pervades the web all too well.

How long does it typically take after a release date is announced for a book/series to be available for order from a place like tfaw or from other online retailers? (Can you tell I'm scratching at the bit?)

phlebotinin | August 13, 23:52 CET

Being an old comic collector (maybe it should be an old collector of comics, but I also collect old comics, so now I'm confused!), but as I was saying, when I see all this "Squeee!" going on, I tend to be reminded of Magnus the Robot Fighter and how the robots he fought would go Squeee! when he took off their heads with a karate chop to the neck.

But we were discussing the new Angel comic. And I have wonder how many covers they intend to have for this one. The last few Spike and Angel series ran anywhere from 2 to 4 covers each. This get expensive for us OC types who just have to have ALL the covers.

Sorry, I'll wander back to the home now.

kmb99 | August 14, 00:21 CET

I'd pay an extra buck for fewer ads any day. I've always waited for DVD (or now iTunes if I'm desperate) for that reason. Now I'm reading comics and I'm stuck with ads again! (Actually, I was considering cutting them out of my Buffy comics--will that make the book fall apart?)

jcs | August 14, 00:27 CET

phlebotinin--that could also be mistaken for Hawkman saying anything...or is that more of a weee than a squee?

I spend about $25 per week on comicbooks. I can understand how people are shocked to hear a comic is 4 bucks. Guess what? Suck it up! After all, this is Angel we're talking about.

Frankly, to get more Angel canon, I'd pay 10 bucks an issue. (Which I'm sure its going to cost me to get the obligatory variant covers)

alexreager | August 14, 00:37 CET

Re: variant covers. I could be completely wrong, but I think it's two covers, with a 10 to 1 ratio. That is to say Tony Harris brings us the "main" one (and the one that most people will probably assume is the only cover), but for every 10 copies a store buys, there will be 1 done by Franco, the interior artist.

I personally cannot wait to see Franco's covers. His first ASYLUM cover is the greatest cover ever (and I'm lucky enough to have the original art, Franco rules!), and his Spike vs Ninja Puppets cover is a close second.

What does this mean for you guys? If you want the rare Franco cover, make sure your store buys at least 10 copies of AFTER THE FALL. Please do that anyway, though. Make sure your retailer knows!

Brian Lynch | August 14, 00:43 CET

So does anyone know why there are no actual release dates in the IDW solicitations? Do they want us to just guess which week it comes out?

MichaelH | August 14, 00:48 CET

What's weird, MichaelH, is the release date is only available to people who aren't snarky. Isn't that weird?

Brian Lynch | August 14, 00:53 CET

Being a complete comic newb with the arrival of Buffy S8, I'm kinda delighted with the low-low prices for all this original content and art, considering I regularly plunk down $5+ for magazines that are literally infested with incredibly expensive ads from wealthy global companies, propping up the whole endeavor. Anywhere shy of that seems like a bargain. I see your *squee* and raise you a *wahoo*.

barest_smidgen | August 14, 00:59 CET

Who Died? No, no, no. No one dead please.

I seriously can't wait for this. I do think that Not Fade Away was the perfect ending for the show, but I just can't wait to see what happened and to visit these characters again. Also hope to see older characters from the show, like Gwen or Kate.

hitnrun017 | August 14, 01:03 CET

I apologize Brian, I'm just really eager for it to come out and got a little excited when I thought there was a release date.

MichaelH | August 14, 01:20 CET

As it gets closer, don't fret, MichaelH, I'm sure IDW will tell us all. I'm hoping it comes out the day before Thanksgiving, so families can read it around the table.

Brian Lynch | August 14, 01:25 CET

I spend sometimes 40 to 50 bucks a week on comics.So $2.99 or $3.99 has no real impact for me.Besides I was already buying the other IDW Angelverse comics anyway for the last two years.This is just a continuation of that.lol

Buffyfantic | August 14, 01:26 CET

woo hoo!!! I've been waiting for this :). I'm assuming (hoping) that IDW will be offering subscriptions???

resa | August 14, 01:45 CET

MichaelH--LOL you got zinged by some mighty Purple Hands! I guess Brian doesn't realize the all-crushing power of his keystrokes!

hitnrun---How about some Doyle love as long as we're at it! I'd love to find out that he's a bigwhig with the PTB. But please, please, please don't make him a surprise silent senior partner of Wolfram. That would just be too hard to take.

alexreager | August 14, 01:50 CET

Angel? No, that's old hat. The kids these days like the Yu-Gi-Oh.

Dan Corson | August 14, 02:13 CET

alexreager - a Doyle appearance would be SO COOL. I love the idea of bringing Doyle back, especially since Glenn Quinn is no longer with us. :(

I am also hoping we get to see Lilah...

ladygrey | August 14, 02:14 CET

A typical comic book cost 15 cents back in 1970 or so...that's about 80 cents now...but the quality of the paper, the printing, etc., is tremendously higher than what it was back then. Market demand, one has to assume, dictated that comics producers (not just the writers, illustrators, inkers, letterers, etc.) significantly upgrade the quality of their product, and, as one who bought, read, and hoarded comics back in those days, they certainly have been upgraded to a nearly unimaginable degree.

Very eagerly looking to finding out if Angel slew the dragon...and everything else, too.

Chris inVirginia | August 14, 02:56 CET

I'll gladly pay the extra buck for a great story and great artwork. All the Spike comics so far have been well worth the price. In fact, the only time I felt a little ripped off was when I bought the Buffy comics. I didn't feel the artwork was up to snuff (Buffy looks like she is 15 years old instead of the grown woman she should be) and the story just didn't have the interest for me. I know I am mostly a Spike fan, but I have also had no problems shelling out an extra buck for the Stephen King Dark Tower comics, like I say, great story, great artwork. I am really, really excited about this new Angel comic and I'll be saving up to get them all, along with the next upcoming issue of Shadow Puppets. Thanks Brian!!!

luvspike | August 14, 04:16 CET

Me = Sheepish.
Er, so, that was my recent unemployment combined with my comic-newbiness reacting. I think I'll make sure to hide my bitter posts safely in the middle where no one reads them from now on...this first-reactor-attention-getting thing is not for me!
Thanks to ladygrey, phlebotinin and Saje for explaining what the differences may actually be. I assumed there would be some, but wasn't sure what they were. I'm sure I'll end up spending my extra dollar like the rest, I just won't eat lunch that day. (;

WillowSlay | August 14, 04:26 CET

An extra dollar? I can manage.

Cannot wait...it sounds totally kick-ass, Brian...

UnpluggedCrazy | August 14, 07:26 CET

I'm kind of in love with Brian Lynch right now.....talk amongst yourselves.

Harmalicious | August 14, 07:33 CET

I'm not entirely convinced that IDW is such a small company any more.

Well, I don't know what qualifies as "small" but according to their own website IDW has 10 full time employees (plus over 100 freelancers) whereas, according to answers.com Dark Horse has 100 employees (can't be sure how they're counted, that might include freelancers, though personally I doubt it). Oni publish a book called "Wasteland" which I quite like and that's $2.99 but doesn't have the firmer covers and is black and white so, assuming there isn't some cartel amongst the smaller publishers, i'd say the higher IDW price is mainly a reflection of higher costs (partly due to smaller runs).

(and someone mentioned the Dark Tower comic, well that's a pretty good example - firmer covers, sealed, quality stock and no mid-issue ads, very similar in look and feel to an IDW single. It's also $3.99 but from one of the big two, Marvel)

Cheers phlebotinin ;). Truth to tell, i'm not sure about TFAW's ordering policy but the Buffy "Long Way Home" trade is out in November and is already available for pre-ordering so soonish i'd say (might be slightly different for trades as opposed to singles though).

(and no problem WillowSlay ;), yeah, no-one skims the first comment so you're gonna get noticed, especially if a Purp responds ;)

Saje | August 14, 10:20 CET

Dark Horse had the successful Aliens franchise in the 90s plus those Frank Miller's books like Sin City and 300 sold like hotcakes. So for an independent comic book company, I would reckon they are very successful and can afford to bring out books that are the price equivalent to something Marvel or DC would bring out.

Purp?

I have vague memories that it was done as a nod to the Bronze Beta.

Simon | August 14, 10:33 CET

One word: squee!

gossi | August 14, 11:04 CET

OMFG, then it's a purp-walk.

Sorry, meandering, it's late-ish, sorry, as you were... I mean, squee³.

QuoterGal | August 14, 11:27 CET

Squeeeeeee!! Angel's in it! - I just hope he isn't a film of dust on Spike's coat.

This is fantastic, first Buffy and now Angel - awesome. And so much purpleness in the thread too :)

The Do That Girl | August 14, 12:38 CET

Yay! I was hoping it would come out soon. Can't wait to read it.

Very pretty purple, by the way. I think it was a shout-out to the Bronze Beta. (We're still there, by the way. Brian? You should totally stop by and post there).

Yes, he's in it. He's the brooding handsome brunette guy, right?

Yeah but that could also be Wesley or Lindsey you're describing. *g*

menomegirl | August 14, 13:36 CET

Angel is back!! YAY!!!!
...now if Willow would pop in the new comic the world would be perfect for me, but I read that there are little chances that Btvs characters will help the survivors to win the dragon battle, but a woman can always hope right?

rua1412 | August 14, 13:40 CET

Anyone know of a particular reason why this book is gonna cost us an extra buck and be 8 pages less than the upcoming Buffy Season Eight?

Go count the pages in Buffy #5. That was one of those 40-page issues, but it's all extra ads. The story is still 22 pages.

Also also, they're a much smaller company than Dark Horse, let alone Marvel or DC and so the same economies of scale probably don't apply.

Not all that much smaller, these days--Estimated Dark Horse market share in June 2007: 3.81%. IDW: 2.33%. :-)

Oh yeah, also--Woot! New Angel! :-D

Niels | August 14, 13:43 CET

True, but DH still sell more than twice the number of comics IDW do Telltale (I am surprised that IDW are up over 100,000 a month though).

OMFG, then it's a purp-walk.

If we had a few more verse celebs, we could have a line-up and play "Usual Suspects" ;).

I like the idea of them being Purp[etrators] (sic) of goodness, like roving anti-criminals, dedicated not to righting wrongs but to writing rites. Ahem (that one goes out to jlv ;).

Saje | August 14, 13:53 CET

Thats so great! I cant wait to get this. And according to Brian on the IDW forums, the issue is going to be 27 pages long for the first issue.

And naughty naughty people quibbling over and extra dollar! Its Angel! and he's back! wooohooo!:)

angeliclestat | August 14, 15:47 CET

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be picking up this new comic. There are several reasons but its mostly because as much as I like Angel, I feel Spike really brought down the show for me and I don't really care much for him (Or Illyria. I miss Fred.) and I know he'll probably have a bigger part in the comic than Angel himself. It also has to do with how disappointingly bad the Buffy comics have been.

If someone died, its obviously Gunn because Illyria is all super-being and they're not going to kill off the title character or the "fan favorite" [insert eyeroll] aka Spike and of course theyre not going to kill Angel (I love you, Angel.) Unless they kill off Lorne...

I just didn't like how nobody who was there with Angel from the beginning was left standing with him, he was basically left with two people he didn't really care for and a close friend who was dying. And Wesley and Cordy and Fred were dead.

The only way I'd consider picking this title up is if they bring back Cordy, as her absence really threw off the balance of the show for me. Unfortunately, as much as I love Angel, he alone isn't going to bring me back into the Angelverse. My favorite characters are dead. Bring Cordy back!

[ edited by Bruce on 2007-08-14 18:06 ]

Bruce | August 14, 18:01 CET

I'm sorry you feel that way Bruce, cos i think this is going to be really special.

I understand what you mean about the end of the show, and him losing people closest to him, but as a vampire it is something he will have to live with. If he never shanshu's then everybody he has known for the duration of the show would have died eventually and he would have had to make new friends.

God that sounds depressing doesnt it!

Anyway, I hope you at lease give the first issue a try, and see how you go from there.But if your fave characters are not there and you really dont wanna, then thats cool too.

angeliclestat | August 14, 20:18 CET

I can't wait. And I'm still trying to get over the excitement of Tony Harris being the cover artist.

deborahmm | August 14, 20:56 CET

I'm so excited about this series and not too long to wait either !

Shade of Pale | August 14, 23:42 CET

Barest_smidgen, I'm like you. I never bought a comic before Buffy8. I'm now loaded down with every Joss-related comic I could find in my local store. (And yes, I know there's more to be had on the Internet.) The comic business needs to give Joss an award or something.

Suzie | August 15, 05:19 CET

Most of the fandom is thrilled with the upcoming return of Angel. The naysayers could at least wait to actually read the comic before whining what's in it, whose not and what's going on.

cheryl | August 15, 07:39 CET

Hey, I didn't hear about #1 being 27 pages. That would definitely make it worth the extra dollar, being almost an extra third. IDW should make a big deal of that.

daylight | August 15, 20:07 CET

August 13 2007