Whedonesque Mobile : Comments on 12935 : 13 Shows That Should Never Have Been Cancelled.

Firefly is always going to be included in these lists. Still one of the worst decisions Fox ever made.

I would also include Angel in this list - but I suppose we were very lucky to get 5 seasons of Angel as opposed to the half a season most of these shows got.

angeliclestat | April 10, 16:01 CET

Is the author blaming the Browncoats for decreasing box office sales?
Maybe an over-excited fan turned him off to the movie but this is the first time I am reading this outlandish theory.

alexreager | April 10, 16:10 CET

I think perhaps it would be reasonable to say that the existence of the Browncoats created unrealistic expectations for the film by the studio - ie, that they could market it almost entirely by themselves, and they'd have a smash hit on their hands.

daylight | April 10, 16:22 CET

I'd also add Angel to the list. S6 held such tantalising promise.

As to the author's claim, I can only speak for myself. I enjoyed Firefly, but wasn't a huge fan. I had intended to go and see Serenity also. But some, and I stress some, fans of the show/film did deter me from seeing it. Some, again some, of the attitudes shown were unappealing to me. This is only one instance of course. I couldn't speak for anyone else in this regard. It's a pity, as I'm sure the film was a fine piece of work, but I still have no intention of seeing it.

JuliaL | April 10, 16:24 CET

on a side note: i LOVE everything they said about Arrested Development. because it's true.

and yeah, Firefly will always be on this sort of list. those big dummies.

JuliaL,
it's a shame that you will let 'some' fans of FF keep you from seeing the movie. It is a damn fine piece of work.

[ edited by death is my gift on 2007-04-10 13:29 ]

death is my gift | April 10, 16:26 CET

Should have been 14 shows - Where's Angel ?

AncientMagicks | April 10, 16:34 CET

While I was pleased that 'Firefly' was included on this list (along with 'Arrested Development' and 'Sports Night'), I have to admit that some of the authors' comments weren't very accurate/fair when it came to some of the shows. I have met some Browncoats who might seem a little scary, but not a lot. In fact, the vast majority of them just want to introduce everyone they know (and some people they don't) to something they find incredibly special.

However, I have a hard time respecting any authors who don't have time to do even the most basic research, as they blame the cancellation of 'Sports Night' on it's laugh track, which was excised in the second season. These writers seem to have included SN on the list only because someone they know said it never should have been cancelled, not because they actually watched it.

TaraMaclay | April 10, 16:52 CET

Creepy?....well yeah, a little creepy.

Sabri3l | April 10, 16:53 CET

Hmm, I'm kinda glad Fox never picked up the series option for Doctor Who after the Paul McGann movie - not because I disliked the movie, but I can't imagine the Who franchise in a different state than it's in now; very popular and very healthy. Knowing Fox they probably would have killed the franchise somehow.

And Arrested Development and Angel - well, I mourned their passing and missed them, but at least they got a decent shot. Some of those others never had a chance to prove themselves!

crossoverman | April 10, 16:56 CET

OK, 'Dead Like Me' totally deserves to be on there but c'mon, 'Firefly' ? That show jumped the shark literally years after it was finally put out of its long drawn out misery.

Learn your lesson Fox, 14 episodes is too long for any show to maintain interest !

(unlike pretty much every other Doctor Who fan on Earth, I actually quite liked the BBC/Fox film, especially the 'eldritch forces' take on the TARDIS and wouldn't have minded seeing the series but does it really merit a place given that Who actually is back ? Also didn't think much of 'The Lone Gunmen' and their deaths on X-Files was one of the final nails in that particular coffin - talk about misjudging the tone of your own show)

Saje | April 10, 17:01 CET

I actually mentioned the sadness that was the cancellation of Firefly in my Japanese class last night when the teacher said Chinese was gaining popularity over Japanese as a high school subject. And oddly, one person did say something a bit disparaging about Browncoats, so we do seem to have a bit of a reputation, though I don't really get why.

Also, "My So-Called Life" needed to be on this list.

Meltha | April 10, 17:15 CET

Firefly, The Lone Gunmen, and Arrested Development are the three reasons that I can never really like Fox, no matter how many great shows they actually do keep on the air. Though, to their credit, I think they really did try with Arrested Development, instead of just giving up on it as they did with those other shows. The real problem there is pretty neatly summed up in that article:

Arrested Development is the best comedy in television history, and it died because everyone who wasn�t a diehard fan was too stupid to understand that.

Sad (and mean), but true.

[ edited by spidermansays on 2007-04-10 14:39 ]

spidermansays | April 10, 17:38 CET

What's the big deal about Browncoats? Since when is it creepy or a crime to be passionate about something you love and want to share it with others? The attitude of "some fans" (unless they try to kidnap you at gun point) has to be the lamest reason ever, for not seeing a movie that you actually think you'd like.

HBO's Carnivale should be high on that list, IMO.

Shey | April 10, 17:44 CET

As much as I adored Arrested Development, it really fell away in the third series with the charming but misused Charlize Theron; the whole British thing was just naff. My So-Called Life is by far and away my choice for prematurely cancelled series partly because it was brilliant and partly because it ended on a cliff-hanger.

moley75 | April 10, 17:55 CET

I loved watching Firefly when I managed to catch it on television which was at times difficult with some last minute TV Schedule Changes. I watched the first episode to satisfy my curiosity since it was the creator of Buffy and Angel newest project.

I didn't watch Serenity at the movies because of the Browncoat factor. Okay, so it's not as insane as it is in Australia as it is in USA but I'm someone that shied away from the Star Wars prequels because of the fans that it attracted. So I would have to agree with some of the comments that the author made.

While I introduce Firefly and Serenity to others, I am rational enough not to codemn them when they don't share the same passion as I have. Some fans aren't able to draw this line.

Just Another Fan | April 10, 17:57 CET

Once and Again and Everwood deserved a mention too, just thought I'd add a few that others hadn't mentioned yet.

(And I'm still crying about Angel and My So-Called Life.)

non sequitur | April 10, 18:11 CET

Let's be careful of our words. People are allowed to have their opinions/reasons for things, no matter what you think of them.

zeitgeist | April 10, 18:12 CET

I didn't watch Firefly until just prior to the release of Serenity, but not because of the Browncoats (who always seemed amicable to me, I must have missed the "creepy" bits). I'd put both Buffy and Angel on that list - they were almost new shows each season. Especially Angel, where reinvention was the key.

I have a penchant for those short-lived, promising shows: Freakylinks, Dead Last, and so forth. Ah, Fox: " ... everything I put in the ground withers and dies."

Ocular | April 10, 18:39 CET

Overzealousness creeps people out and when you are in the group you tend to give a pass to some of the overzealous behaviours or even not notice them. I met folks at every pre-release screening I went to (yes multiple screenings, I know the thing of which I speak) for Serenity who definitely would've weirded out non-flans.

p.s. - not to be too catty, but perhaps everything Fox puts in the ground withers and dies because they stand over it (casting a shadow and preventing it from getting sunlight) and forgets to water it unless nature calls (which may work for plants, but not shows). Okay, now that I've extended this metaphor beyond any lingering hope of feasibilty, I shall move on.

p.p.s. - I don't think the writer meant to insulting using creepy. In context it looks like its an attempt to explain the fact that the Browncoats are a family and you are either part of the family or you're not. And if you are outside the family and don't 'get it', then it may seem strange to you. Every family has their in-jokes and quirks that people outside wouldn't get. But then the cult initiation part may be what people are objecting to :) I can see why that would set some folks off, but again with the seeing what they were trying to say. While I don't agree, I don't 100% disagree. I know people who refused or still refuse to watch the show or the movie due to obsessed fans pestering them about it.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2007-04-10 15:59 ]

zeitgeist | April 10, 18:46 CET

Pfft, cult initiation ? Chop off one finger and you're in, what's so hard about that ?

...

Why's everyone looking at me that way ?

'Creepy' may not be the best choice of words but, no-matter how geeky we consider ourselves, i'm sure most of us have still been around someone who's almost aggressively passionate about their show/book/manga/comic/fruit juice flavour and sometimes it can be a bit unsettling. It's not fair but groups are mostly judged by their most vocal/extreme members, s'just human nature.

Saje | April 10, 19:16 CET

Let's be careful of our words. People are allowed to have their opinions/reasons for things, no matter what you think of them.

That is true, and in case that was directed at me I'd better just say that I do not actually think everyone who didn't watch Arrested Development is stupid. :) It's possible that I may have become slightly bitter watching so many shows I love get cancelled over the years, so sometimes I despair. But I certainly accept the validity of others' opinions ... even if they make me sad. *wipes tear for Arrested Development*

spidermansays | April 10, 19:21 CET

Well, I was sorry that Roswell was cancelled, the premise for season 4 had a lot of potential - and yes, for some reason I just loved it.

While I certainly didn't love Invasion I think it had been intriguing enough to merit a second season - which moved along a little faster.

silvius | April 10, 19:23 CET

That is true, and in case that was directed at me I'd better just say that I do not actually think everyone who didn't watch Arrested Development is stupid. :)

It was a general comment, but Shey's "lamest reason ever" was the straw for yon camel's back as it were (which was directed at JuliaL's tentative post upthread). And everyone who didn't watch Arrested Development is stupid... KIDDING! Great show, though- I own all three boxes.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2007-04-10 16:41 ]

zeitgeist | April 10, 19:39 CET

I feel the need to add mention of Wonderfalls and the Inside. I drove my parents crazy stealing the tv for weeks after they were cancelled in the hopes they might magically come back on. I almost avoid getting into new shows for fear of getting my heart broken again. It's really depressing.

I was glad to see Brisco on this list. I'd never heard of it until a couple of weeks ago when my boyfriend absolutly had to buy the dvd set right now. Surprisingly good. Have to love Bruce Campbell and his giant chin...

wilydairygnome | April 10, 19:55 CET

Gotta agree with Brisco, Dead Like Me, Dark Angel, Eerie Indiana & Firefly. Miss them all. Also agree with Carnivale, loved that show. Now it looks like Andy Barker PI can be on my sorry to see it go list. Dang.

luvspike | April 10, 19:56 CET

I'd put both Buffy and Angel on that list - they were almost new shows each season. Especially Angel, where reinvention was the key.

'Cept for Buffy wasn't cancelled.

I did love Brisco County Jr when I was young and so I bought it at ComicCon last year. And I watched the first episode. And like with all my old favorites, Moonlighting, Quantum Leap, etc...I can't seem to get past that first episode. I automatically go, "This isn't as good as I remember" and then I kind of never get back to it. Which isn't fair, because almost no show has a really amazing pilot. Except for Wash. And Apollo. And Starbuck. Those are kickass pilots...

But otherwise...

Rogue Slayer | April 10, 20:14 CET

Sorry, didn't mean for that to come across so harsh. I really can't comprehend the logic, but I should have found a more diplomatic way to express that.

Shey | April 10, 20:18 CET

Well, OBVIOUSLY FIrefly shouldn't have been cancelled. (tee hee)
However, I was really thrilled to see Push, Nevada on the list. I think I am the only person who watched it in North America. When I mention it to others I get the RCA dog look. I really enjoyed that show. Part Lynch, part LOST before LOST and part Andy Griffith in a weird way. The tone, the writing and the mystery were so well executed, and they up and cancelled it right when it was getting seriously freaky. I wish they would release on DVD, though I think they need more than just me to buy it to justify that. I keep hoping Trio will run it on "Brilliant but Cancelled".

Charmuse | April 10, 20:35 CET

Overzealousness creeps people out and when you are in the group you tend to give a pass to some of the overzealous behaviours or even not notice them.

I have to state for the record that this is true only of non-societally approved activities. People are not generally "creeped out" by overzealous sports-fans, for example. However, if you are a passionate fan about science-fiction, you get labelled with these disparaging comments all the time - mostly because that's the accepted cultural stereotype.

petranef | April 10, 20:35 CET

Am I the only person who wailed and threw ashes on themselves when Threshold wasn't brought back? I think that show had great potential to do some weird new stuff with the whole 'alien invasion' thing.

And on a slightly unrelated note, I'm at the tail end of S5 of Angel, again, and up until last night I was satisfied with the way the show ended. But then I started thinking about Connor and I thought how much they could have gone on with his story. I hope to see some mention of him in the S6 continuation (assuming there really is gonna be one). I mean, come on, superpowers and all on his own seperate from Dad and the gang. I could so see him kicking demon butt at Stanford. "cause of course there WOULD be demons at Stanford. Ok, yammering now...gotta go.

skeezycheeses | April 10, 20:38 CET

I have to state for the record that this is true only of non-societally approved activities. People are not generally "creeped out" by overzealous sports-fans, for example. However, if you are a passionate fan about science-fiction, you get labelled with these disparaging comments all the time - mostly because that's the accepted cultural stereotype.

Well, that's because sports are 'real life' with 'real life' implications. They're not mere entertainment. Don't you know that the World Series routinely brings together countries like Syria and Israel in a spirit of peace and comradery?

Or something like that.

I do see the difference, but I don't understand it. Why is a guy who paints his body team colors and can tell you the starting line-up for the 1967 NY Yankees not as looked down on as someone who dresses like a Jedi and can cite the capabilities of the Millennium Falcon? Is it really just because sports have a bigger 'fandom' than genre entertainment?

[ edited by Rogue Slayer on 2007-04-10 17:46 ]

Rogue Slayer | April 10, 20:45 CET

There have been so many shows that I really enjoyed that I felt were cancelled too soon...I agree with adding Angel to any list, with Spike and Illyria coming aboard, the show should have gone forward for several more years just based on their potential story-lines. Dead like Me is one of my favorites, yes it was on two years but only 30 episodes total. Dark Angel was a wonderful show, cancelled supposedly to make room for Firefly...go figure. Forever Knight, Wonderfalls, The Inside, Tru Calling and this week...The Wedding Bells!

Calledon | April 10, 20:48 CET

Three things:

1) Firefly would never die.

2) I still miss Arrested Development.

3) I have to watch The Tick.

[ edited by Este on 2007-04-10 18:12 ]

Este | April 10, 20:49 CET

I have to agree that Wonderfalls should have been included. That was an awesome show. Also wish Sports Night could have gotten at least one more season. I just thought that was brilliant writing.

I regret that I must enter the minority and say I tried, but never could get into Arrested Development. I will readily admit that even had I been watching, I probably wouldn't have gotten some of the in-jokes described in the article(e.g. spoofing the commercial). I have to respect that they rewarded their fans, though. That's pretty cool.

Betsy | April 10, 20:55 CET

Oh, and hey! Not stupid for the lack of Arrested Development love!

And also not offended the writer wrote that. I understand attachment to a show and that baffled feeling that occurs when other people just don't get it.

Betsy | April 10, 20:58 CET

I do see the difference, but I don't understand it. Why is a guy who paints his body team colors and can tell you the starting line-up for the 1967 NY Yankees not as looked down on as someone who dresses like a Jedi and can cite the capabilities of the Millennium Falcon?

Because one's something that actually happened and one's fiction. Even though the core attitude of fanaticism is much the same, people get judgmental over that... it's very easy (and, unfortunately, sometimes accurate) to accuse the latter folks of losing grip on reality. Not that rabid and superstitious sports fans with the $18,726 worth of collectibles in their homes who place their team's success on their lucky underwear and their special dance during the seventh-inning stretch are any less weird, though. ;)

Casira | April 10, 20:59 CET

Why is a guy who paints his body team colors and can tell you the starting line-up for the 1967 NY Yankees not as looked down on as someone who dresses like a Jedi and can cite the capabilities of the Millennium Falcon?

I personally don't think there's much a difference (and I live with a sports fan who borders on "creepy"), but as petranaf said, it is just more socially acceptable to be a "sports geek" than a "sci-fi geek". Maybe it comes down to lowest common denominator...almost anyone can understand football (or baseball or whatever), but maybe you have to be a little smarter than the average folk to understand how a hyperdrive was theoretically engineered. Brains scare people.

Plus, I think anyone who dresses up in costumes tends to get labelled as "creepy" by the mainstream public. Though the people in that fandom may think it's awesome (including me), the mainstream is going, "What the *bleep* are you doing with your time?! Get a job!" And I can understand that. I'd be a bit creeped out if one of my fellow jurors showed up in a Trek costume, for instance. But I'm sure there are plenty of Trek fans who thought she was the coolest.

It's also, I think, a way to define the boundaries of a social circle; I am IN the fandom group, you don't get it so you are OUT of the fandom group. A costume, etc., wards off having to socialize with those people who are OUT. That I can understand as well. Who wants to hang with someone who doesn't appreciate Joss? (;

WillowSlay | April 10, 21:15 CET

Its all good, Shey, I know you didn't mean it to come across that harshly, but I thought it prudent to throw the reminder out there.

Dark Angel was a wonderful show, cancelled supposedly to make room for Firefly...go figure.

The rumour that wouldn't die...! Was wondering when that would surface again.

"Despite a strong fan base (and a second season finale directed by James Cameron), Dark Angel was cancelled in 2002 after just two seasons due to budget costs and low second season ratings. Avid fans of the show attribute the loss of ratings to a misjudgement on the part of FOX Network for airing the second season on Friday evenings instead of Tuesday evenings. In addition, changes to the format and tone of the series in the second year are also cited as contributing factors to its demise. Many of these changes were unavoidable due to budgetary concerns, departing actors, and 9/11, which forced the show to downplay its post-apocalyptic setting."

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2007-04-10 18:29 ]

zeitgeist | April 10, 21:25 CET

LOL! Merely repeating said rumor...I have no idea whether Fox was influenced by adding Firefly or not. Friday night is death night for many shows...certainly that hurt; I actually thought the second season was the best of the two...the introduction of several fascinating "transgenics" and the snake cult.

Calledon | April 10, 21:40 CET

THANK YOU Meltha for saying my so-called life! oh how i long for the days when jared leto was not so angsty and smothered in eyeliner...

ALSO:: Black Donnellys - the brand new show about 4 brothers in the irish mob - is being cancelled already! i'm so bummed... Paul Haggis is an amazing writer. and a supremely cool dude (i met him once). and the fact that he's a canuck only makes him that much wickeder in my eyes.

FarfellaDelFerro | April 10, 21:41 CET

Add Cupid to the list please!

Also, joining in on the lack of Arrested Development love. To me, it was a lot like Seinfeld -- snarky for snarky's sake, with little heart. And now that I've pissed off two huge fanbases, I'll very quietly run like hell for the door.

cabri | April 10, 22:01 CET

For the record, I've been creeped out by overly zealous sports fans in the past. I really do think it's human nature and not the object of the devotion that's responsible. But I do agree that the object of zeal can lead to different social standards for what constitutes too much zeal.

You've run into the juice people too, Saje? Now those people are crazy.

Sunfire | April 10, 22:08 CET

Just thought of a couple more - Kitchen Confidential, which just got better and better, and Profit.

JuliaL | April 10, 22:08 CET

Add "Space: Above and Beyond" to the list.
and another vote for "My So-called Life"

The_Joker | April 10, 22:10 CET

I miss Jack Of All Trades... :'(

Dan Corson | April 10, 22:37 CET

"Well, that's because sports are 'real life' with 'real life' implications. They're not mere entertainment. Don't you know that the World Series routinely brings together countries like Syria and Israel in a spirit of peace and comradery?"

I've seen Jews hug Arabs enthusiastically when their favorite team wins, and in that moment when your favorite team wins, its amazing what will happen to a crowd of fans. For that one second of elation, sports can bring people together in truly amazing ways, and its those moments that are awesome about sports, IMO. Now if we could just take that common ground and have it make a more substantial impact, but in many ways, I think sports shows us the way.

And Rogue its the same reason that some things are looked at as cults and other things are looked at as religions, I mean seriously have you ever tried to think of the difference between Christianity and other things that we consider cults? I once taught World Religions at Texas Tech, and one day I asked my students what the difference between a religion and a cult were, I asked them to say why Christianity was not a cult and why the Branch Davidians werent a religion, and not one person could come up with anything. Dont get me wrong, I couldnt come up with anything either, its just that some people see people who dress up as Jedi's as members of a cult, hell some people see the browncoats as a cult, and people metaphorically see sports as religion. To me, its all about respect, we respect sports and we dont respect trekkies. Just sayin...

I cannot believe nobody has mentioned Freaks and Geeks, I love that show so much because those characters were me. It totally deserved better than it got...

jerryst3161 | April 10, 22:59 CET

Jerry It's just like I said. Certain things(sports, Christianity) just have bigger 'fandoms' than other things (Star Wars, BDs). So it's really just what is a more socially approved way to spend one's time.

I've seen Jews hug Arabs enthusiastically when their favorite team wins, and in that moment when your favorite team wins, its amazing what will happen to a crowd of fans.

I would dare say that were those two people who held the fundamental beliefs that are tearing up that region currently, no sporting event could do much about it. Then again, are we talking religion Jew or ethnicity Jew...and is the Arabian person actually from an Arabic area or simply Arabian in ethnicity... I've no doubt that Jewish people are friends with Arabic people in the world. Even married, probably. But I just can't imagine a sporting event bringing together two Fundies on either side.

Rogue Slayer | April 10, 23:13 CET

Freaks & Geeks rocked :)

Rogue Slayer - cricket could do it!!!! or not...

zeitgeist | April 10, 23:13 CET

Now that's "regustin'" since I "din't" see The Tammy Grimes Show or OK Crackerby on "th'" list.

Seriously, I gare with the choices,e ven tho I don't think I ev er saw a single episode of any of them, oops, I *did* see Firefly's first ep.

DaddyCatALSO | April 10, 23:17 CET

I'm currently in the middle of watching Freaks & Geeks for the first time. It is as good as I've always heard.

I remember watching Jack of All Trades. Don't remember what happened so much, but I love the theme song.

While I adore Arrested Development now, it took me an entire season to really get into it. For me, this show was much better on rewatch, when I knew and loved the characters. Of course, I only started watching just before it got cancelled, so I'll shoulder the blame for that.

I also think Wonderfalls should be on that list. And The Inside was great as well.

hacksaway | April 10, 23:21 CET

"But I just can't imagine a sporting event bringing together two Fundies on either side."

Soccer isnt the world's greatest and most popular sport for nothing Rogue, and the World Cup tends to do that to fundies all over the world. You make it so that the Isreali team will advance in the World Cup only if the Palestinian team beats Italy, and suddenly a bunch of those Jews are rooting for Arabs. Thats the way sports works, and if we could just find a way to take that sudden common ground and give it more merit or a foundation, we could begin to solve some deep problems.

jerryst3161 | April 10, 23:24 CET

Grosse Pointe needs to be on that list! I've been slowly watching the DVD since Amazon released it, and it's just as hilarious as it was back in the day--definitely the 3rd best show the WB ever had.

areacode212 | April 10, 23:25 CET

I agree with the list and the suggestions of those left off, but I feel a deja vu in the air about this list. Anyway, if this makes me creepy, so be it, but:

Millennium. Still miss it, but I think Lance Henrikson rocks. Nothing has come along to take it's place (although The Inside might have had a shot at coming close if it had survived). Criminal Minds and CSI Vegas don't come close.

Tonya J | April 10, 23:41 CET

I liked Millennium because of Lance's character (Jack Black) but it evolved into a show about Christian mythology instead of visiting the dark side of the human mind.

Calledon | April 10, 23:53 CET

Yes, very odd. If only the show hadn't gone in that direction.

Tonya J | April 10, 23:58 CET

Can I ask where the Browncoats are that were so overzealous that they turned people off to the movie? I went to two screenings in my area before "Serenity" came out, and the crowd at the theatre was really polite, friendly, and well-behaved. Most of the people there ranged from 30ish to 50ish plus. There were a number of families with kids (also well behaved). When passersby asked what our line was for, people explained "Serenity" in a very low-key, yet positive, way.

When the movie premiered, the theatre was filled, many were people who had obviously seen Firefly. Again, the median age was about 40-something, and people brought their kids (none of whom were obnoxious). The audience was quieter than most (nobody was having side conversations; no cellphones were left on).

So I want to know where the Browncoats were who turned people off in droves. Does the average person even know what a Browncoat is?

Anyway, I agree with many on the list (especially Firefly, Dead Like Me, Arrested Development), and even though Angel had 5 seasons, I still believe it belongs on there, too.

Nebula1400 | April 11, 00:20 CET

I'd be so happy, if I'd get to know another Browncoat in my city, who was a Browncoat before I showed him the DVDs.

All you Australian and American fans, you don't know how lonely fandom can be.

bookworm | April 11, 00:50 CET

Can I ask where the Browncoats are that were so overzealous that they turned people off to the movie?

Well there was one review at the time that mentioned something to that effect.

Simon | April 11, 01:15 CET

Whoa! Nobody's mentioned Point Pleasant? That really was a fantastic show. Sadly, the best episodes are the ones that never aired, but I imagine it's the same with a lot of cancelled shows.

jfhlbuffy | April 11, 01:23 CET

Um. Wonderfalls, and My So-Called Life. Too identifiable, or what?

numbereleven | April 11, 02:01 CET

I just wanted to throw in my agreement at Dead Like Me. I watched it a few months back in marathon mode and it was excellent.

And I highly disagree that the parts with George's family were all horrible. I liked a lot of what her little sister did, and her mother was amusing most of the time.

Superrodan | April 11, 02:55 CET

I'm sticking to my guns here. The WB cancellation of "Angel" was a huge mistake. OK, I'll hush now.

Madhatter | April 11, 02:59 CET

For me it was the unremmiting 'hype' from the fans online off putting. Evidently if you were a fan of Buffy and Angel it was inconceivable to some people that you wouldn't also love Firefly and thus had to go see Serenity. Believe me, it is perfectly possible and any small interest I might have had to go see the movie disappeared with the barrage of 'but you have to, it's going to be so amazing!!!' messages that preceded the release. In fact I did catch it months later on DVD and while it was far from the worst movie I saw that year it really didn't do much for me either.

helcat | April 11, 03:10 CET

You've run into the juice people too, Saje? Now those people are crazy.

You said it. Apple and Mango are the worst IMO, those guys are bananas.

Rogue Slayer - cricket could do it!!!!

Ah yes, the sport that unites all the world in believing that the English are absolutely mad. I mean, really, test matches last 5 days and can then end in a draw. Especially if it rains. And there's a built in break for Tea. Could anyone else have invented a game like that ?

I guess the way the majority see sports is that, arbitrary though it may be, the outcome of a sports match has real world consequences, it's not pure fiction in the way Jedi Knights are. It's also seen as healthier because it's seen as more social IMO, less isolating (which is kinda self-fulfilling obviously). That and the 'majority' thing which, in fairness, sort of makes sense. Many things that only a comparatively few people are into are weird, sort of comes with the 'minority' sickle.

That said, the actual obsessiveness is pretty much the same. I've long thought that people that are e.g. really, really into motorbikes are every bit as geeky as people that are really, really into computers or chess or whatever else. It's the 'really, really' bit that matters IMO, not what they're into.

(and AFAIK, that's pretty much true for cults too. Usually I guess they tend to hold more extreme beliefs than the majority of mainstream religions - from a believers perspective obviously since from an atheist's they're all pretty wacky ;) - and are often 'leader' oriented rather than 'belief' oriented but it's mainly just that the majority don't consider them to be genuine religions. It's maybe worth remembering that at some stage pretty much all the world's religions were considered cults by someone)

Saje | April 11, 03:14 CET

Actually, cricket sounds good.

Madhatter | April 11, 03:19 CET

Heh, true named you are 'hatter, verily. ;)

Saje | April 11, 03:31 CET

I agree that Point Pleasant picked up a real head of steam at the end. Marti was starting to figure out what worked in the concept, dropping a lot of the suburban soap opera, killing off some of the mediocre pretty-boy actors, etc. The finale was like a combination of the endings of Seasons 2 and 6 of Buffy, except gone more horribly wrong. It's still just a guilty pleasure for me and not a genuine one, like Buffy, but there was promise there.

Nobody gets the time to shake things out anymore. Sigh.

shambleau | April 11, 03:47 CET

Gotta go with the Dead Like Me love. And the family stuff was good; kid sister was lots of fun and mom was sympathetically dislikeable.

No mentions of Joan of Arcadia? Cancelled just when it was ready to take off. And Miracles, David Greenwalt's venture after leaving Angel, is perhaps the most painful cancellation after Firefly. For me, anyway.

MissKittysMom | April 11, 03:59 CET

Since there are shows mentioned here I've never even heard of, I'm going to mention one that should get me the great big "say what?" award. Last season's brilliant "Kidnapped" staring the amazing Jeremy Sisto from Six Feet Under (Brenda's brother Billy). I watched the first episode with a nagging feeling of 'this is just too good for network TV'. Can't remember the network, it's the one Jay Leno is on.
By the third ep, I just knew it wasn't going to make it. It required you to invest in the plotline. It even went non-linear here and there. The acting was spectacular. I think it got 13 eps, then disappeared.
Now it looks as if the same thing is happening to the equally brilliant in an entirely different way Studio 60 (same network .... is Fox going to acquire a rival in the canceling good shows sweeps?). And if it were possible for me to admire Aron Sorkin any more than I already did, he gets huge love from me for having the guts to even try to get away with a show like Studio 60.
IMO we're pretty much back to "there's nothing worth watching that isn't on cable" territory.
With the exception of Criminal Minds, which is so much more than just another "procedureal".

Shey | April 11, 04:37 CET

We seem to have been doing this a bit lately: http://whedonesque.com/comments/12805 and http://whedonesque.com/comments/12897 and elsewhere. I know we have new members just able to post, but maybe the rest of us should consider re-visiting the K�bler-Ross "Five Stages of Grief."

:>

JuliaL: "It's a pity, as I'm sure the film was a fine piece of work, but I still have no intention of seeing it."

I can't quite understand not seeing a film under such circumstances. I can imagine being put off a film by its annoying proponents - especially if I think that their qualities somehow indicate that the film will not be good - but not if I am, as you say you are, "sure that the film was a fine piece of work." What's the point?

It seems like the old cutting off of one's nose and the resulting spite to one's face. Nobody wins.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2007-04-11 04:05 ]

QuoterGal | April 11, 04:51 CET

All the shows that I've seen on this list I absolutly love (Firefly, Arrested Development, Freaks and Geeks, Undeclared). Prehaps I should check out the others?

Jona | April 11, 04:52 CET

Word, Quoter Gal. You said it better than I did.

Shey | April 11, 05:04 CET

Loved, loved, loved Sports Night. I completely fell in love with that show a couple of months ago when I borrowed my friend's DVDs. Freaks and Geeks is also a favorite of mine, and of course Firefly.

I can see how Browncoats (or any other sci fi fan base) could possibly turn off non-Browncoats. I reside in a city that lives and breathes basketball. The college team here is really good. The more people talk up the team and wear the horrible school colors, the more I detest the sport. It's weird, and I can't explain why I feel that way. So, ya, if I compare basketball fans vs. me to me vs. non-Browncoats, I could see how non-Browncoats could be turned off. And like someone mentioned above, it's those die hards that kind of ruin it and speak for the enitre group.

Harmalicious | April 11, 05:11 CET

Firefly fans are like Star Trek fans in the alternate universe where Trek was cancelled before the airing of "City on the Edge of Forever." The show never had the time to move beyond its small geeky audience to find its humongous geeky audience. In a just-er world, our numbers would be many, as would our sequels. But everyone would still make fun of us. I'm pretty sure. And spinoffs, whoah, lots of 'em.

(Do I have to mention that geeky is an appellation of pride? No. Not here.)

Pointy | April 11, 05:40 CET

Firefly just is that list.

Agreed with all shows mentioned here, again with the love for Wonderfalls(awesome show), Tru Calling, Dark Angel, etc. The Inside (even though Australia has yet to air more than the first five eps).

Also MissKittysMom i could'nt agree more. With Joan of Arcadia but especially Miracles i just loved that show, and it left a big hurty feeling when it was cancelled.

P.S First comment, Hi everyone!

broodyangelcakes | April 11, 05:43 CET

Just makes perfect sense, QuoterGal. Why deprive yourself?

That being said,sometimes fan behavior can just wear a person out a bit. I'm a fair degree of (American) football fan myself, but I live in a football-crazed city, and sometimes, in the height of the season, hearing everyone's opinion of exactly what should have been happening in the game last night every single Monday morning all the way in to work on the bus makes me want to scream.

I'm sure it's much worse if you don't see what everyone sees in the object of adulation to begin with.

toast | April 11, 05:45 CET

Ah, I agree, MissKittysMom. CBS pulled the plug much too soon on 'Joah of Arcadia'. To this day, I still see God as a little girl with those cute little antennas. A big message in a little package indeed.

Madhatter | April 11, 06:04 CET

jerryst3161 I agree about the value of sport bringing people together. I've seen that. I'm not much interested myself, but I'm glad for it and I think we'd have more war in its absence.

dreamlogic | April 11, 06:32 CET

With the huge amount of tv channels out there, why doesn't someone start up a channel that shows only previously cancelled shows? Think of the abounding happiness instead of the lamentations. The schedule would always be full! While we're at it - how about "Rome" ? Shame on you, HBO.

AncientMagicks | April 11, 06:35 CET

AncientMagicks:
nononono!! tell me it's not true, they haven't canceled Rome???

Shey | April 11, 06:39 CET

Firefly, AD, and Sports Night are the only ones I've watched (I believe... I don't have the list open at the moment). They're also easily in my top shows list. These are the reasons I want to write TV. So, if I can even ever write at this quality, I've clearly got a bright future ahead of me :p

Jobo | April 11, 06:49 CET

HBO is beginning to rack up quite a prestigious list of cancelled shows Carnival, Deadwood and now Rome.

Zoic_Fan | April 11, 07:02 CET

HBO is beginning to rack up quite a prestigious list of cancelled shows Carnival, Deadwood and now Rome.

Three shows that would never have been touched by anyone else in the first place, so kudos for giving them two, three and two years respectively.

Given the fact it cost them $100 million for Rome in each of its two seasons, I understand why they can no longer justify the expense.

crossoverman | April 11, 07:48 CET

Oh, hey there, broodyangelcakes, welcome aboard, if that's the word.

QuoterGal | April 11, 07:56 CET

Sounds good to me QuoterGal thanks, very happy to be here.

broodyangelcakes | April 11, 08:15 CET

It's a shame Rome was cancelled. It was great while it lasted.

I also have no love for Arrested Development, it just didn't make me laugh. The Office (US) is by far the funniest TV comedy out there.

TwisTz | April 11, 09:27 CET

The two shows that I mentioned above (way, way above) were absent from the list but it has been playing on my mind that I didn't say I still get that unpleasant lurch at the pit of my stomach when I realise Firefly was cancelled so quickly....I mean, what kind of world do we live in.....

Also from the list, the sublime Dead Like Me - the region 2 season 2 dvd is out next Monday, hurrah!

silvius | April 11, 12:46 CET

Carnivale.

(though much like Angel, it ended in such an abrupt-yet-frustratingly-perfect fashion that I'm not sure I actually *want* it to be resolved.)

[ edited by kipron on 2007-04-11 11:08 ]

kipron | April 11, 14:01 CET

The question of fans being "overzealous" is one that fascinates me, particularly as someone whose daily bread and butter relies on such "over"zealousness.

When we made our band trip to see "Serenity", we were accosted on the way out by some lovely Browncoats who wanted to see what we thought of the movie, and whether we were going to see it again. As a fan myself, it was great. My partner being an altogether quieter fan, was taken aback at first. She's an enjoy in privacy type of person. I'd proffer that it's important to learn to read the difference.

Personally, I love nothing more than full-on fan power. I think it's vitally important to be utterly, utterly passionate about what you love.

But then, I'm always concerned that this may be taken the wrong way. I recall slinking down in my seat at an Elvis Costello concert when a fan shouted out "Go Declan!" during an acoustic guitar solo. This was, of course, partly because I was thinking it myself. : ) And when I've met heroes, I have, without fail, walked away thinking I've made the most colossal fool of myself.

When fans - though still few and far between, alas - have approached me, on the other hand, I've only ever felt either shy, bemused or unworthy... so who knows?

I'd give away several parts of my body in which I have invested time, pleasure and energy to have my own army of Browncoats... but there you are.

It's a very tough call.

Kentonist | April 11, 18:36 CET

The creator of Carnivale, I can't remember his name at the moment, made it clear in interviews that he'd only told a third of his story when the show was canceled. I guess I hope he discovers comic books.

dreamlogic | April 11, 22:26 CET

dreamlogic, I believe the name you're seeking is Daniel Knauf though I think (?) Howard Klein wrote the last espisode. I could be completely wrong about that, grabbing memory cells here:)

At this point, HBO is on my sh*t list for cancelling "Deadwood". I may forgive them in a hundred years or so.

Back to point, I never got 'Carnivale' when it aired. However, I picked up the first season DVD and I'm enjoying this show.

Madhatter | April 11, 23:12 CET

Yep, Daniel Knauf created that show (and he actually already writes comics dreamlogic, AFAIK he's still writing 'Iron Man' for Marvel though I don't read it - he also wrote a couple of the better episodes of Gina Torres' show 'Standoff'). For me the end of 'Carnivale' was far less of a resolution than 'Not Fade Away' which basically was totally resolved (much as 'Angel' may have been cut off in its prime). That show really needed to make it all the way to Trinity IMO.

It's also one of the few shows where I almost never fast-forwarded through the credits. Wonderfully off kilter but still descriptive.

('Rome' incidentally was only ever meant to be a mini-series originally so fans should probably consider anything over about 4-6 hours as a bonus)

Saje | April 11, 23:16 CET

I would add Nowhere Man to that list.

angelusiredspike | April 12, 03:28 CET

I agree with Jona -- loved so many of those cancelled shows that the unfamiliar ones enriched my DVD check-it-out list. Seems like I'm always meeting my favorite shows when they are "late" and on DVD.
Still bitter about Wonderfalls. . .

deedetta | April 12, 04:21 CET

At this point, HBO is on my sh*t list for cancelling "Deadwood". I may forgive them in a hundred years or so.

At the time of the cancellation they announced 2 TV movies to wrap up the series, which David Milch thinks is a good compromise. Really, the cancellation of Deadwood is not the worst of all possible things, given the TV movies are coming.

crossoverman | April 12, 05:54 CET

Just have to add my agreement to Saje's comment. The opening credits on Carnivale were more creative than most entire shows on TV & never failed to leave me kind of mesmerized.

Shey | April 12, 08:56 CET

I wasn't a regular viewer of that many of the shows on the list; either for worse, for having missed quality programs, or better, as I won't have to feel the bitter feelings of incompleteness and unfulfilled promise for them that I'll always have for Firefly. The Browncoat characterization that caught my eye in that write-up was "angry" - I will always be angry about the treatment of Firefly by Fox, and about the unbelieveably, maddeningly poor domestic box office of Serenity.

The Adventures of Brisco County Jr., while certainly not in the BtVS/Angel/Firefly class, was another show I enjoyed - and it does get better after the pilot, Rogue Slayer. I was a little disappointed in the pilot when watching it in the midst of a run on cable years ago - it didn't measure up to many of the other episodes I'd just seen in prior days. Maybe you'll have a similar reaction.

And thanks for the reminder of Cupid, cabri - that was a show that I was very sorry to see go. (As were My So-Called Life, and to some extent Once & Again, come to think.) I have a couple of personal, sentimental reasons for thinking fondly of it - the show used a song by Frostbit Blue, my favorite "local" band from my college days, and the bar had a tap for my favorite beer, New York state-brewed Honey Brown Lager. But, aside from that, it was a very well-written and interesting show, with very good leads in Jeremy Piven and Paula Marshall.

(Speaking of leads, while I greatly enjoyed Sorkin's The West Wing, I personally was never able to get into Sports Night, after several attempts, because I didn't like or sympathize with any of the three lead characters.)

But, yes - Firefly! Bad, bad Fox, trying to take the sky from us. Even though Buffy season seven and Angel season four might've been quite different if the show hadn't been pulled when it was, the fact that it was so good, and was pulled so early in its life, and that the cast and crew loved it so much, makes Firefly the top "show that should never have been canceled" in my book.

(And hello, Whedonesque! Don't worry - I'll try to be more short-of-wind in the future.)

LKW | April 13, 05:34 CET

April 10 2007