I only heard about this yesterday and it's already here! Impressive.

buffy_kitten | October 10, 10:54 CET

How Joss affected my life??? I'm reading Bleak House although English isn't mother tongue and every year I nearly had to repeat class because of my English grades (which means I'm really, really bad at it...).

And that's only because of him.

And, oh yeah, I'm not afraid anymore when I go home at night alone. Because if Dawn...

bookworm | October 10, 13:19 CET

Well if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have met my wife. Not that he introduced us in person but rather I met her through a Buffy board. Also, I know more about the workings of US tv networks than I would ever care to know.

Simon | October 10, 14:03 CET

I sense that this might become the more recent:
"The Love Thread" (C) (TM) (R)



Got something close. I "blame" Joss for some of the choices I made in my life in recent years, due to his influence.
I "blame" him for making me find my family, at least family somewhat related to Joss' definition for it, according to a interview last year. Cause just like how Simon, found his wife, I found this family through a Buffy web community:

"I'm a believer in that, I am a great believer in found families and I'm not a great believer in blood. Although I love my family, even the ones I grew up with, to me I've always felt that the people who treated you with respect and included you in their lives were your family and the people who were related to you by blood might happen to be those people but that correlation was a lot less [strong] than society believes it is."




Ditto. I know more about working and programming about US tv, than local tv.

Numfar PTB | October 10, 15:28 CET

Joss re-shaped television and, as a TV writer myself, his influence on me has been profound.

Andy Dufresne | October 10, 15:52 CET

Get thee to this site, genius boy. And you're reading Bleak House, bookworm? I'm in mid-Oliver Twist for same reason. (I put some of Dickens' filthy bits at the end of the Mercedes thread.)

Pointy | October 10, 15:54 CET

Because of Joss, I have made the first new friends that really matter in about 15 years. My Browncoat community rocks!

madmolly | October 10, 16:27 CET

Oh, I'm thousands of dollars poorer, but immeasurably richer in ways that count much more.

Chris inVirginia | October 10, 16:32 CET

"...Dickens' filthy bits..."

Must. Not. Succumb.

Joss made me care about TV writers in a way i'd previously reserved for novels and films (i.e. i'll pickup/watch something I otherwise wouldn't have been interested in solely on the basis of who wrote it) and generally showed me that the very best TV can move me every bit as much as other media, not just by using cheap sentiment but by finding real, universal truths about who we are as a species.

On the way out of 'Serenity' I had an actual physical 'pain' in my stomach because Wash was dead. Just didn't think it was possible to care that much about a fictional character (even though i've liked and admired loads over the years - Atticus Finch is still the man I want to be when I grow up ;).

And he inspired a fandom and me to become part of one (however peripherally) for the first time. I think it says a lot about what his stuff means to people that, as the letter's author mentions, the fandom is so mixed across age, gender, religions, country, sexual preference etc.

Plus, as with Chris inVirginia, he's cost me a shitload of money the bastard ;-).

ETA - and 'Dear Hoss' is hi-larious ;)

[ edited by Saje on 2006-10-10 15:49 ]

Saje | October 10, 16:44 CET

I wrote a Dear Joss letter a few years ago and still have it saved on my hard-drive. One day I hope to give it to him in person.

Because of Joss I have the drive and motivation to write for television.

MySerenity | October 10, 16:51 CET

In analysing Joss' work, I learned to pick apart fiction which is probably a large reason why I'm writing television and movie reviews these days. Also, through Joss, I got involved in several dutch discussion groups which gave me a love of writing and is one of the main reasons for me becomming a science journalist.

Not to mention that Joss' fiction is always somewhere in the back of my head in pretty much everything I do. It's become a part of my mental vocabulary and as such I certainly think it has influenced me in many small ways which are probably mostly unclear to me.



Great quote, that, Numfar. I'm very much with you and Joss on this subject, which is a large part of why I love Joss's work so much. I've got a big, great group of friends (most of whom I met during my years at university) who are more important to me than most of my blood relations will ever be.

ETA: annoying typo

[ edited by GVH on 2006-10-10 15:00 ]

GVH | October 10, 16:59 CET

Hm well, it was due to Joss and the other Buffy writers that I started writing screenplays and scripts (and that in english, although it´s not my mother tongue either) and finally decided to go into the Media business and not just talking about it, so I guess I could write one of these "Dear Joss" letters, too.
Also like many others here, I found tons of great friends around the world and even went to LA for a few days to go to the PBP.
Oh and of course I look at films and TV in a whole other way now... which is good in a way but often spoils me a bit cause normal TV shows are boring now.

Kessie | October 10, 17:26 CET

Made me see that television can be literature.

Hasn't cost me all that much money, so far - a few hundred for the dvd player, boxed sets of BtVS, Angel, Firefly, Wonderfalls (counts 'cos I would not have discovered it but for Whedonesque), but more than a few lost weekends, when the next boxed set arrived.

barboo | October 10, 18:18 CET

The first Buffy show I saw was "The Body". I was half-way through my father's slow decline and death due to cancer. Caring for him and going to work took up 90% of my time. That episode was cathartic in the extreme and the show became my escape and probably saved my sanity.

Of course, that's saying I was sane to begin with :)

kpbkwrm | October 10, 18:37 CET

Highly impressed by people reading -- and writing! -- art not in their native tongues.

And generally, this thread?

*sniffle*

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-10 22:11 ]

Pointy | October 10, 19:05 CET

Dear Joss; because of you, I have a fear of telephone polls.

gossi | October 10, 19:25 CET

I <3 Joss Whedon

That's right, three Joss Whedons are greater than me. Then again, one Joss Whedon is better than me.

When my brother Joe asked me if I wanted to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I gave him the hairy eyeball. So he shrugged and sat down to an episode of Buffy. We were living together in a small apartment at the time, so in a way I kind of had to watch it. I can't remember which episode it was now, but I think that I was hooked by the time that the theme song started playing. Of course, then I wanted him to start the show from the beginning.

I think it was about a month later when he asked if I wanted to watch Angel. I said that it wouldn't be the same as Buffy, to which he replied "dude, just watch it."

I do remember that we started Angel on the first episode. I was right in that it wasn't the same, but it was just as good. By the way, this was before the fifth season of Angel started. I got to tune into the fifth season of Angel after work every Wednesday night.

When Angel went off the air, Joe cancelled our cable T.V. service.

This was before the fifth season of Angel, but when Joe asked me if I wanted to watch Firefly, I said that I wasn't a big fan of science fiction. Joe beat me over the head with a small couch, and I agreed to watch the first episode. I absolutely loved it. Firefly even opened the gates to other science fiction shows such as Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who and Star Trek. When Joe told me that it had only lasted for about a dozen episodes, I was furious.

Several months later, I heard Joe shout something to the effect of "F***IN' AWESOME!" while I was browsing the 'net in my room. He'd just read the news that Serenity was in the works. My response was pretty much the same.

I am a faithful fan of Joss Whedon. I plan on buying every volume of the Astonishing X-Men (I never bought comic books before Joss), and I can't wait for two movies that I don't even know much about yet (Goners and Wonder Woman).

I'm gushing, I know, but I just wanted to get all of that out of my systems just in case Joss decides to read through this thread.

Joss, you're my favorite writer/director ever.

George Romero comes in at a close second, but that's only 'cause I loves me some zombies.

Hoban Washburne | October 10, 19:38 CET

Dear Joss,

I love your work. In fact I've spent so much time watching your shows that many nights in which I could having been having sex with a range of lovely women were wasted.

Thanks for nothing.

Love from David.

sungoesdark | October 10, 20:00 CET

I hardly ever comment, but I feel the need to here.

I came to Buffy in the 3rd season after an Aussie friend visited and gushed profusely about how addicted he was to the show. I was immediately hooked. And then there was Angel, and I stayed hooked. I completely missed Firefly during the first run (short period of living with a BF who didn't think paying for cable was a necessity), but I'm kinda glad I did, because it meant my first exposure to the 'verse was in the manner in which it was intended and not the mucked up way the network handled it. Then I found Whedonesque, and I found myself falling in love with his other work, including an obsession and appreciation for comics at 41.

Beyond the amazing writing, flawless story arcs, and a knack for finding just the right actors to pull it off, Joss has always felt like "one of us" -- just a geeky jokester of a guy who uses his own voice to write good stuff that we can connect with and just happens to have found a way to get it on TV or in the theater. I've never connected with or been this enthusiastic about any writer, director, creator, etc. Only Joss has managed to strike this kind of chord with me. And I truly do thank him for it.

Becka | October 10, 21:01 CET

Superfically, if it were not for Joss I wouldn't have a set of comic books awaiting me when I go into my local comic book store. (Before Joss, when I spoke of my local, it was a pub).
I wouldn't spend my breakfast and lunch hours reading Whedonesque and other Whedon-centric websites.
A little deeper, I wouldn't have dreamed of doing a fan table or a charity screening because I'm not that type of person. A take charge person. A speak to a lot of strangers person. Or wasn't, before Joss.

Lioness | October 10, 21:40 CET

Yeah. What Becka said. ;)

(But there is that time in 1965 I stood in line for hours to see a double bill of "A Hard Day's Night" and "Help.")

m'cookies actual | October 10, 21:48 CET

That site is nice (and who doesn't love Hoss, by golly) but I think I'd rather comment here. He might actually see it.

What does Joss Whedon mean to me? Has stroke from sheer emotional response... Seriously though, if I said the sun, the stars and the moon, it wouldn't be too far off. Joss' work has gotten me through at least one deep depression and even when I didn't want to feel, especially more pain, I kept going back to watching Buffy and then Angel. I think those shows kept me a) human, and b) sane. Because Joss is us and we are him. He is an intellect fused with a large heart (not en-larged, just large). He's the Mozart of his age; a genius who writes for the people, not the rich and influential. It's his calling and while he must write for himself first, he shared it with us lucky mortals. And I love him for it and all the above.

Tonya J | October 10, 21:49 CET

Well, I cannot match those who have found the loves of their lives through Joss's fandom, but I have met some wonderful people through Whedonesque, and my daily routine has been permanently altered to include checking in on the "black," the "white" and the "library." I would not have discovered BSG nor VM were it not for the discussions on Whedonesque (deeply indebted to you, Simon, for the early BSG raves -- that show has become, by far, my favorite of all those currently on the air). Like others, I have also learned much more about the TV industry than I ever thought I would.

But I have also learned much about writing. I have no aspirations to be a screenwriter, but I am fascinated by the process. And through Joss's comments on writing alone (but greatly enhanced by Tim M.'s and Jane E.'s comments), I have thought a great deal more about the structure of my own non-fiction writing and that of my students.

Nevertheless, as much as I appreciate Joss for his work and his interaction with fans, I appreciate his humanitarian contributions through Equality Now even more, perhaps. That his own desire to give back to the world has inspired or nurtured those same impulses in his fans is heartwarming. And given the problems in the world right now, it is so important to set examples of peace and caring that are not tied to religious or political dogma, but given out of the generosity of the human spirit. A person could have worse legacies.

palehorse | October 10, 21:51 CET

That's a great letter. I have nothing to add to it because I agree with every detail!

cityof | October 10, 22:17 CET

Nicely said, palehorse. So many of the posts above hint at actual, positive life change inspired, at least in part, by the works of the man. That's just incredible. And so refreshing to read, on this day where I was feeling a bit down on the tone of things around here. Yay, uplifted again. And since I've certainly used more than my fill of this space to go on and on about the powerful way Joss has affected my life, (LoveThread, et al) I'll endeavor to keep it short.

I found my way to these smart, funny, achingly observant stories during a difficult time and they were a lifeline of sorts. After a while, I found myself becoming more discerning and demanding of the things served up to me as entertainment. My life had truly been enriched by these characters and tales and I couldn't stand the sights, sounds, or yes, smells of mediocre substitutes. Long after the stories had left primetime, they remained in my consciousness, and, i think, served as inspiration and strength to fight back/survive a recent violent assault and its aftermath. But most of all, a shared love of these words, characters and ideas brought me to this place, where I stumbled upon a man (our own, blue, zeitgeist) who, although 2,000 miles away, floored me with his limitless wisdom, razor-sharp wit, uncommon courage, unfailing ridiculousness and his ability to make me a whole new kind of eyes-wide-open happy. It's like he invented his own brand. Kickass. And, as I've decided that I'm keeping him, like, fo-evah, I'm ever grateful for how Joss has affected my life.

barest_smidgen | October 10, 22:51 CET

I was lucky. I was in from the first episode of Buffy. I saw it advertised and remembered there had been a film that wasn't brilliant but had one or two amusing ideas. I was hooked within minutes of episode 1 by the whole concept: witty, exciting writing well delivered by the actors with incredibly high production values in spite of a small budget. The show was broadcast twice a week back then with a slightly edited early evening edition followed by an uncut late night showing. I badgered my bestest friend to watch. It was a mark of his great respect for my opinion that he thought I was talking out of my arse but I nagged him so much and there was no sport on at the time of the repeat so he watched that first episode too and was hooked immediately too. Our addiction got so bad we couldn't wait for Buffy to come to the UK so we got downloads from the U.S.

Then Angel started. It was the mythology of the vampire with the soul that I found even more exciting and resonant than The Slayer. It tapped into so many literary, psychological and mythological traditions. I can remember sitting down nervously but with great expectation to the very first episode of that and was, of course, smitten. And this time, my bestest friend didn't quibble when I told him he had to watch this show.

Two shows which at their best had brilliant writing, a terrific amalgam of seasoned actors with new enthusiastic talent, brilliant design and choreography. Not since the golden period of English theatre in C16-C17 had an audience been treated to high comedy/drama/pathos/tragedy sometimes all in one episode turning emotions on a dime and metaphor - ye gods we were rich in metaphor and allegory plus knowing references to high and low culture. We were so spoilt and so pitying of those who didn't understand, who thought these were just kids shows about vampires.

Firefly had been and almost gone before I got wind of it. I saw a couple of episodes (when it was still out of order), starting with "The Train Job." It was alright but after BtVS and Angel it seemed a bit average and I didn't bother with the rest. Eventually, the DVDs were issued and I thought, "What the hell?! People I respect are saying this was a good show. Let's give it a go." On spec, I bought the DVDs and that was it. This was a great show sabotaged witlessly by the suits who make decisions. Yes, of course, I went to see Serenity the moment it opened, loved it and bought the DVD the moment it was on sale as I did every episode of BtVS and Angel.

When there is dross on TV now as there is so often, I take down one of my box sets and indulge myself again in some of the best and most satisfying times to be had from TV drama.

But it's an absolute lie that I take my Smile Time vampire puppet to bed with me...

nemesis | October 10, 22:53 CET

Before Joss, I was pretty much a snob about TV. And like Saje, I tended to follow the works of individual book authors & filmmakers, rather than TV creators. Now, I'm embarassed to admit that a small part of me actually believes that the Scoobies and Sunnydale (destroyed though it may be) actually exist.

It's the "igniting the creative spark" part of Joss's work that I especially appreciate. As much as I love his TV & film work -- and I do -- and as affecting as certain creations have been -- like "The Body" and others -- his art inspires me to create myself and that's invaluable.

I think we're all potentially artists, among the other roles we play, and it's artists like Joss that make me feel better & stronger & more connected to others that cause me to "remember" to create & give out, as well as take in.

(This is a thread that I've long wanted us to do, especially as I've detected over time, like Pointy, a slightly disheartened tone in Joss's missives. I've wanted to emphasize to him what we've already received as a way of thanks & encouragement. The recent thread with his posts was sorta it, and this is icing...)

(ETA: Pointy: "I'm in mid-Oliver Twist for same reason. (I put some of Dickens' filthy bits at the end of the Mercedes thread.)"

Me, too. What a great idea. What a Foul, Suggestive Writer Dickens was...)

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2006-10-10 21:08 ]

QuoterGal | October 10, 23:05 CET

Great stuff, all! *Hugs palehorse and barest*

Joss has affected me (hugely) in so many of the ways you all have expressed, but there is one (smallish) thing that stands out a bit. Herc at Ain'tItCoolNews.com decided to have a bash in LA for the last Buffy episode ever. Great party, so, so bittersweet for all 500 of us attending... and I got to meet Amber and James L. The big thing about that trip wasn't the shared experience of seeing the very last ep all together, though. It was after, when, all reflective, we drove up the coast and discovered this tiny little inn in Malibu.

I've been back there twice since. I hope I can convey how peaceful and wonderful that small find is and was. Like a dream place, off the beaten a bit, and just a hair's breadth away from paradise. That's how that place makes me feel, down to my very soul. And I'd never have found it, if not for Joss.

Willowy | October 10, 23:13 CET

I wrote a version of this on the Goners site some time ago in the Why Joss thread.

His writing astounds me with its ability to make me feel, make me care so much for people, for characters, who theoretically should exist only in the moment I'm watching them. Yet, they live on in my mind.
They become a part of my "interior life," to crib a phrase from the Man himself.

I have, on occasion, asked myself, "what would Buffy do here?" Granted, the answer often involved a level of violence not tolerated by our society or justice system, so I had to go another way. But you get my meaning, right? :p

Joss creates, with the help of fantastic actors, people I want to know and people I want to be.
(And some I just want to do, but that's a whole 'nother NC-17 rated story. LoL)

It feels like home when I'm watching a show from the 'verse. (Firefly/Serenity particularly does that for me.) It's like I'm hanging out with old friends. Really cool friends I've known for years.
That feeling of family and the idea of created family resonates strongly with me since it's a reflection of my real life. My friends are the only family I have, and I love them dearly.

His work has brought joy, laughter, and pain-- soul-wrenching pain-- into my world that I wouldn't have had otherwise, and I'm glad for all of it, even the pain. On various occasions, he's broadened my horizons, challenged my beliefs, and given me something to look forward to. On bad days, the 'verse has brought me solace and comfort.

Joss' work clicks with me on so many levels, I could wax rhapsodic about him all day long, but then you'd grow bored and annoyed with me, (too late!) so I won't.
Joss loves people and loves his fans. That love comes through in every scene.

He's made my life better, quite simply.

And I'm grateful for his work, his dedication to both his characters and to us, the fans.

Syren | October 10, 23:57 CET

Hmm. I started watching Buffy when the pilot premiered, and by the end of the teaser, it was one of my favorite shows ever. With the exception of Jaynestown, I think I saw every episode of all three Joss shows in non-syndicated broadcast (quite an accomplishment in the Dark Ages before TV on DVD… is it sad I was [am] proud of that?)

But I'd say the effect on my life as a whole has been a bit more subtle than what most people here have posted. I knew I was going to be a writer about 8 years before Buffy, but that was the show that convinced me that I should try writing comedy (I had always thought my sense of humor was too dark/weird before that. Buffy was one of the first things I saw that I felt was similar to my sense of humor, which was a large part of why I liked it so much.) These days I primarily write comedy, so I suppose in the long run, it did have a large impact on my writing.

When I was in college, I would call home and talk to my dad (and occasionally mom and sis) about the latest episodes of Buffy and Angel right after they aired, and wasn't so-and-so shocking/hilarious/really damn cool? Not the most significant moments in my life, but they are certainly memories I treasure. And if it wasn't for Joss, I would have had to listen to my dad talk about nothing but baseball and evil software corporations.

Lady Brick | October 11, 00:05 CET

Like others have said, I 'blame' Joss for the way my life has changed over the past two years - and I thank him every day for it. Although I was a Firefly fan by the end of the first showing of "The Train Job" - and converted a few people at work - I didn't become an involved fan until I 'discovered' Angel and then Buffy just over two years ago and now I watch them over and over.

Through Joss I found Whedonesque, my local Vancouver Browncoat group, the Library and .org. Because of these things, my life has changed dramatically from within. I feel as if I had been in a deep freeze for years and when I cautiously opened the door to peep out, Joss reached in, grabbed me by the heart and pulled me out to plunge into life head first. No dipping my toe in the water to test the temperature for me.

I have developed close relationships with people in my local Browncoat group (seven of whom were at my home for Thanksgiving dinner on Sunday night), people with whom I spend a lot of time several times a month. And, just as importantly, through the Library I have developed friendships with Joss fans throughout the world.



Lioness, exactly. Two years ago I would never have dreamt of organizing a charity screening, but I did it and was very proud that we raised money for such an excellent charity that does the kind of work I want to support. I even stood in front of 150 people to MC the event. Definitely the 'new me', as my friends and I joke. And as an assistant organizer of our local Browncoat group, I habitually am talking to newcomers to our group, although as someone said on the Done The Impossible DVD, Browncoats are friends you just haven't met yet.

I look at TV shows - and movies - in a different, more discerning way and am much more cognizant of who's doing the writing, directing or even producing. I am buying comics, which I have not done since I was very young - my local comic shop has a box for me and they know to put anything Joss-related into it ;-).

I also find myself referencing Joss's works on a daily basis, whether it is a quote from one of his shows (often) or a situation that reminds me of a scene from the 'verse.

In short (I know, way too late!), Joss has brought so much happiness, love and joy into my life directly and indirectly that I am sometimes overwhelmed. Even though allowing myself to feel again means I have also had to accept some pain, I have never regretted a moment of coming back to life.

Thank you, Joss!

samatwitch | October 11, 00:16 CET

Joss, Thank you, thank you, thank you for Spike. My life has not been the same since, not that it was bad before, it is just richer now. Thanks.

luvspike | October 11, 00:24 CET

I think I would also thank Joss for Spike, and for BTVS which is my favorite show...ever.. Also, thanks for allowing me to make some wonderful friends over the years.

spikeylover | October 11, 00:37 CET

Oh, don't make me post something serious about this Joss guy.

gossi's story of wonders;

When I was growing up - and even now - my mum has presented the idea to me that I should marry a woman to look after my place and iron my shirts. Whenever she's here, she still says the same thing. Now, don't get me wrong, my place is usually always mess, but that's my responsibility.

When I grew up, roughly between the age of 15 and now, I watched Buffy on VHS tapes. A lot. I got a job, and used to buy all the box sets as they were released, and watch them religiously. At the time, that wasn't cheap, but I remember it being the first time I had seen a TV series which was periodically making my jaw drop off. And, most importantly, it was funny.

I didn't go out much during these years. I had moved to Scotland at the time (and I'd lived everywhere before that - a child of the RAF).

Buffy, and Angel, helped shape my world view. And I mean that. I found it odd when women weren't strong in real life. I found things some people say creepy. The people I grew up with - on TV - were smart, funny, interesting, odd and compellingly bumpy. In my world, people take responsibility for their actions, actions have a consequence, life might be dark but look for the funny and I should embrace the cheese. In my world, my family isn't just blood related.

Thank you Joss, and everybody else involved in the creative process for giving me a world or 3 which I could not only relate to, but invested in and learned from.

I'm not sure if I'm alone in this, but I hold no religious beliefs. I do, however, believe BTVS made me a better person. And I know I shouldn't say that, 'cause, cheese - but I actually mean it. It hit at a time when my moral view of the world was forming, and the layers of intelligence in the show helped give me a view of the world I wouldn't have seen in other shows.

gossi | October 11, 00:51 CET

Dear Joss: I like your tie. Sincerely, Me.

electricspacegirl | October 11, 01:08 CET

Thanks to Joss, I am now a total TV snob. He set the bar pretty damn high :) I love reading about everyone's emotional journeys. I'm so lucky to be part of such a great community. Thanks, Joss!

Harmalicious | October 11, 01:20 CET

I've actually been planning to write an essay entitled "How Joss Whedon Saved My Life," a title which is not at all glib, actually. (Surprisingly?) I think a more accurate title might be "How Joss Whedon and My Boyfriend Saved My Life," though. Without the boyfriend, I would not know of the Joss. In any case, someday I'll find the words for the details and the willingness to share them with the world. But for now, know this, Internet fandom: Joss Whedon kept me from being deaded. And that means a thing. (Hey I channeled Tim Minear! Who also kept me from being deaded. It was a team effort.)

A sweet idea, which makes me want to get the ancient Joss Birthday Project back online, or what of it I can recover from the Wayback Machine.

Kiba | October 11, 01:44 CET

Kiba, didn't you try to stop Firefly being deaded? It's like a circle of life. Or something.

gossi | October 11, 02:24 CET

Or something. But you see how I tried and did not succeed? I myself am not actually deaded. That's the difference between me stopping Firefly being deaded and Joss keeping me from being deaded. (Now I am wondering, is it easier to save a person than a TV show?)

Kiba | October 11, 02:30 CET

I have noticed you are not deed and raise my glass to Jay of Wee for this accomplishment.

(Un)funny thing - I hadn't been involved in the online Firefly fandom at all until I saw Immediate Assistance. Through that, I met my girlfriend, movie people and a circle of friends. Which is not something I would have otherwise done. So, thanks, Kiba et all.

gossi | October 11, 02:41 CET

Well, when I have a moment I plan to add something to this site.

Joss opened up a whole new 'verse to me and I very much appreciate it. I love all of Joss's worlds very much.

However, the one really special thing he did for me was help me grieve the loss of my mother. When my mother passed I found it very hard to grieve. I'm not completely sure why, but part of it was due to some stupid family pressures and my own self concept getting in the way. Then, a year or so later, I watched the Buffy Ep "The Body". While the details of the situation were different, Joss captured the emotion of the event, the weirdness, the coldness, everything perfectly. I cried and cried, like a hungry, angry baby. It helped me open up and let out all the feelings that I'd been holding in. I've watched the ep several more times since then and each time I am amazed at how perfectly he captured that event. I'm healthier and stronger for it and I am truly grateful to Joss for that.

joni | October 11, 02:50 CET

Joss Whedon led me to my chosen career field. If I had never seen "Buffy", I never would have gotten online and involved in fandom, and never would have seen all the pretty wallpapers and icons the fans produced. I wanted to make shiny things too, so I took a Photoshop class and now I'm in college for graphic design. Also, said college has a huge "Firefly" following, so I've been able to meet some good folks through that.

On a more personal note, "Buffy" was what helped me keep my sanity when I was diagnosed with diabetes (I can remember the exact date I was diagnosed because it was the same night that "Storyteller" premiered. For the record, I missed the episode. Hospitals have sucky TV channels). While everything may have been changing in real life, I knew they'd always be the same in the Buffyverse and that our heroine would prevail no matter what. I had that knowledge to depend on and it really helped.

EvilFirePixie8 | October 11, 02:51 CET

OK, I bite.

Dearest Joss,
We adore that brainpan of yours and so miss your stories. Would you please entertain us?

Guess that was pretty straight forward.

Madhatter | October 11, 03:12 CET

I bought The Chosen collection recently and have been rewatching the show, though not totally in sequence. I got to the finale of the "Evil Willow" arc (Xander saves Will with the yellow crayon speech) last night. I was thinking how wonderful it would be if, in the way that Willow drains the black arts books, there was a way all the shows could be instantly transferred to someone's psyche; the love, warmth, pain, friendship, all of it, especially in light of how much it does for us (we few, we happy few). I also hope Joss pops in and reads some of the messages. It was distressing to read the post of his which talked about how weary and wary he is now.

[ edited by Tonya J on 2006-10-11 01:25 ]

Tonya J | October 11, 03:24 CET

gossi, I didn't know that. THAT is the circle of something or other.

Kiba | October 11, 03:30 CET

Since It seems that I just can't write something better, I'll just keep quoting other people:



Imagine when you're an Asian guy, growing up in foreign but paternalistic country, where a lot of macho concepts are inbued culturally.

My mom is a little more liberal, but when I talk to older people, friends from my parents or when I get to talk to my grandparents, it goes through the concept that "men of the house".



I got Buffy from almost the very beginning. Never saw the movie at the theathers. Got the first run of the show, when it debuted over here. It lined up, with how I always prefered strong female characters over cool male ones. Always prefered Jean Grey and Kitty Pride over Cyclops and Wolverine.

I spent pretty much the first few years enjoying it by myself. Most of my friends didn't had cable, and when we're hanging we were mostly discussing the newest Street Fighter game, animes or our limited love lives.



But something happenned when I graduated from High School, which actually happenned the same year Buffy and her friends did.

The graduation was last grip from my past self, which was mostly a loner due to how I was raised. Right around that time Buffy fandom started to develop here in Brazil. Mailing lists. Websites. And I finally got a computer that had internet access.

Maybe I was just at the right place at the right time. But started to get involved. First, it was just a shy contact, with a friend who could help me purchase Pocket Books' "Buffy: Yearbook". Few months later, started to organize, monthly meet ups. First at, food area over at malls, then moving to living rooms from the homes of a few of a us.

We did run some quite big and memorable events over the 2000~2003 years, we even partned with a big genre magazine for a party. The big meet ups and fan groups pretty much faded since then. Maybe that's the sad part of the story. But I prefer to remember the good part. Maybe we just weren't meant to be similar to the Star Wars or Star Trek fandoms. Hey, somewhere during those years, I was even slightly famous in the fandom, writing columns for all whedon shows and speaking in Fox DVD release parties.

Did I say we faded? Maybe that's not the right word. We just sort of disappeared from the mainstream. Because in a few ways we still live. And somewhere in between those busy years, it just stopped being just about Buffy or Angel. It became personal. We became a family. Not that I don't love and make the best of my blood family. But there were things that I could share with them, due to our shared experiences, that I could not share with my relatives (maybe that's the main difference between family and relatives).

We still like to get together once in a while and watch a few episodes in the births (the newest kid, was even born like 20 days ago), a wedding (1, 2, several drunk people.



I can definetely relate to that. Isn't it odd that some women just isn't stronger, when they definetely can.
I'm never intimidated by strong women. They're the ones I respect the most, and it is probably how I can work so well in my job, where most of my bosses are women.

Thank you very much. Not only Joss, but everyone, touched those creations, even if it was only for a little while.

Some people say it was just some silly fiction. I actually believe that it stopped being "some silly fiction", when it started to change lives in the real world.



No you're definetely not alone with this.

I couldn't finish this post without stealing from someone else. This is one of the final columns from ScoopMe's (I think that was the name of the website, which just seems lost to me now) Hunter Maxim, for the end of Buffy. I actually have it printed in a folder for memorable things, and makes me think how I got here:

"This is our graduation day,and it is all the sadder because I know what to expect out of it now. As much as Buffy means to me, as much as it has given me immeasurable joy, I know it has to fade with time. What are we going to do?
Am I going to tell my future wife about the seve years I spent if fron of the television, enriching my life. Unless she was one of us, she'd never understand, but what are the cnaces? If I told her, she'd think me crazy. It would make her worry.
Am I going to tell my children? Am I going to rock them to sleep at night and tell them fantastic stories of a girl I once knew? Will it be any stranger and outdated than the stories your grandfather told you about gathering around the radio and listening to old Lone Ranger serials?
These stories, they die with us. They fade with the living of our lives, to be taken out at hat boxes and steamer trunks on Sunday afternoons to fill the long dark tea times of our souls. As much as we try, we can never pass them on the way we want to. We can never will the people in our futures to feeel for them as we do.
They had to be there to understand.
With us.
None of this is crazy. None of you are insane. We just knew something that other didn't. We just lived something that other missed. It is their loss, their regret.
Which is why all of this - the show, this web site, these articles, these boards - were so important. This was our time. This was our secret. this was our life that got better with every passing Tuesday.
Don't forget that.
Don't let it go entirely.
Com back, sometime, in your mind, and remember how wonderful it all once was. Remember how sai it all was, how sad we all were.
How sad we all are.
Come back, because you have to acknowledge that it was real.
For them.
For us.
It's time now.
This run it's course, and I've done all that I know how to do. I can't say goodbye, and I will nto suher you out the door. Stay as long as you like, look around as much as you want, and savor every precious moment of it. I'll leave the light on. - Matthew R. Heitzer.

Numfar PTB | October 11, 04:23 CET

I've certainly shed a tear or two watching TV shows over the years but once the set was turned off, so were my feelings.

BtVS is the only show I've ever watched that would make me cry days later while reliving something heartrending.

And I guess I can offer no greater compliment to Joss than to say I still get misty-eyed and even occasionally angry thinking about certain plotlines after three years.

Reddygirl | October 11, 06:02 CET

Might there perhaps be an even greater compliment one can pay Joss than that his artistic choices have made one sad and angry for years?

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-11 04:44 in a fit of guilt and remorse ]

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-11 05:31 ]

Pointy | October 11, 06:37 CET

Damn straight, Pointy!

Numfar, that poem was beautiful.

I've loved the verse for as long as my son has been alive, which is kind of cool, really. Started watching the DVDs while on maternity leave. I was bored out of my mind (all the kid did was eat, sleep, and poop). So, I borrowed the DVDs from my boss, and the rest is history. So, my name is Harmalicious, and I've been a Joss Whedon lovah for 2 and a half years (yesterday). Not nearly as long as you peeps, but long enough to fall pretty damn hard.

Harmalicious | October 11, 07:39 CET

In fairness, Harmalicious, I should confess that I, too, am angry at Joss about some storylines he merely might be thinking of.

;-)

And may the son of Harmalicious one day love the slayer saga!

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-11 06:20 ]

Pointy | October 11, 08:16 CET

Numfar, that was great. I too was a fan of Hunter, and corresponded many times with that brilliant person. He so loved the Buffyverse and was articulate and unabashed in drafting weekly odes to the show that were my extreme pleasure to read.

I've posted here before at my sadness of the ScoopMe closure, and what a loss that Hunter (Matthew) would no longer be writing his eloquent essays. A few months ago, I posted a query to the WB site, where his articles are archived. He responded and said he is alive, well, and now happily married (yay because he was a very sad guy for a very long time)! He's not writing for anything Buffy related any more, and has sworn it off until 'she' returns in some form. I wonder if he knows about the impending comics!

Nice of you, Numfar, to share that bit of his. For those who loved it, you have no idea. He did that and more every single week BtVS was airing. Great writer.

Willowy | October 11, 08:45 CET

The sainted Mrs. Pointy suffered mixed state bipolar disorder. She did not enjoy enough of life, but she loved Buffy. I used to be able to cheer her up sometimes by going out and getting a Buffy video (we started watching in Season Two, after Sarah Michelle did Saturday Night Live's best show, so the videos of Season One were still fresh for us). As Shakespeare would write in iambic pentameter, "Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you."

Pointy | October 11, 09:23 CET

C'mon, somebody post something more cheerful, like a Buffy-themed birthday party for children.

Pointy | October 11, 10:50 CET

Crap. My corner of the nerdish realm lies fast asleep and Oz probably won't have time to post before work. I was hoping for something more touching, but this is what I got:

Bold Purple One, you felt bad when bigger people overpowered you as a child, and that was part of what made you a feminist.

You felt bad as a young man when the blond girl in the horror movies who was clever and had sex somehow always seemed to die, and that was part of what made you create Buffy.

You felt bad as a mature man when they cancelled Firefly, and I won't pretend to understand how that feels, but I do believe they were mistaken, that Firefly would've found its audience if they'd given it a chance. (That 'verse will still produce art. I know you've got a great novelist within you, and perhaps he's struggling to get out, like the creature in Alien, which you made me watch and totally freaked me out, but that's okay, it was good.)

You will turn your pain into love. That's what you do. That's what all good and great hearts do, and you have one.

I have faith. I know this:

What breaks your heart is what makes your heart.

Scads of kittens purr thee to thy rest.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-11 09:33 ]

Pointy | October 11, 11:28 CET

Well my “How Joss Whedon Changed My Life” story isn’t nearly as eloquent or fascinating as some of your stories are, but the almighty Joss Whedon did change my life and for that I am and always will be grateful. I remember seeing the movie with my family when I was young, maybe 8 or 9 and, so at that age, I thought it was pretty cool. I never thought much about it again, nor did I think much about it when I heard that there was going to be a new series on television called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". I unfortunately was one of those snobs who wouldn’t give the show the time of day because “hello, no one cool was watching that!” Oh, how silly and naïve I was.

One night while hanging out with my friends, one of them asked me if I wanted to watch an episode of Buffy and I promptly said “expletive no” to which they replied that that was just too bad they were going to make me watch one anyway. Well I didn’t want to admit it to them but from pretty much the start of that episode, which funnily enough was “Beer Bad”, I was hooked.

I didn’t want to let on how wrong I had been and how right they had been so I didn’t admit my infatuation until a later time when we were watching another episode and I just couldn’t keep it to myself any longer, I had to tell them how awesome I thought the show was. They of course got to act all superior and I let them because hell, they were superior, they knew about this great show for so long and had been watching greatness, while I had been watching, well other stuff. So they let me borrow Season 1 and the rest is history.

My infatuation for Buffy the Vampire Slayer has grown way beyond that, its now a full blown, obsessed, love it like I will love my child someday, can’t live without it, think about it literally everyday at all times of the day, getting out of the shower and tearing up thinking about certain things that happen, driving in the car by myself cracking up at a certain line, kind of love.

Joss Whedon has given me something to look forward to at the end of my night that I know isn’t going to let me down. If I want to laugh I know just what episode to put on, if I want to cry and have my heart broken, I know just what episode to put on and if I just want to marvel at the great cinematic feat that is this wonderful show we all know and love I know just what episode to put on.

I am a still a snob about it all, but now I’m a snob about people who don’t watch the show and won’t give it a try, so I view it as an acceptable kind of snobbery. I have an obsession, an interest that makes me cool and interesting, (well almost), and its all due to you, Joss Whedon. I realize how great television can be because of you. I realize now that television doesn’t have to be mindless, flat characters with a dull plot you give not a rat’s behind about, I know now that television can be full of rich, developed and developing characters, characters who not only grow and change right before out very eyes, but can teach us a thing or two about this thing called life along the way.

I gobble up every single piece of news about Joss, his work and the actors from the shows we love. I can now watch different episodes and sometimes tell a certain writer’s style, which is something that I find so cool, and I now have favorite writers, which I never even thought about pre-Buffy. I can also sometimes discern certain directing styles on the show and I have favorite directors as well. I know about a few different ways to shoot a scene and about how one-ers are great because it lets the chemistry between the actors really sparkle and flow easily. I of course have no desire to be a director or work in the film or television industry but these things are things I’m proud to say I know about, and if that makes me a geek I just don’t care, I will wave my geek flag high and proud.

Whedonesque is the first site I visit every time I sign on the web, I cannot get enough Joss-y goodness. Joss, my life was good before but every time I think about you and the show you gave to all of us I wonder how I lived so long without knowing about it. I was in the dark for so long. You made my life incomparably richer, funnier, and more interesting because you gave me a piece of you and for that I thank you with all the Buffy love in my heart, and that’s a whole hell of a lot. And oh yes, thank you, thank you, thank you for Spike.

[ edited by Entropy on 2006-10-11 10:05 ]

Entropy | October 11, 12:03 CET

I came so late to the party, not just this thread, but the party itself. I'm a young'un compared to some here, so actually the first show I encountered was Firefly, not Buffy or Angel. I liked the funny, the smart, the Gina Torres (did I say that out loud?), the ship, the guns, the horses, but I really liked this in the "last" ep (I was watching on Fox, those bastards):

Mal: We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough.

That rang so true in my little head, esp. since I thought those were the "last words" of the show. So, I went on my merry, p***ed at Fox, but, hey, that happens a lot *coughthetickarresteddevelopmentandyrichtercontrolstheuniverseetccough*.

Then the DVDs came along at an affordable price, and I re-met the 'Verse, in order, with all eps, and just older enough to really get it. Now, thanks to TNT, I've caught up on AtS, too, and FX is helping me currently to meet BtVS (hey, those boxed sets are expensive for a growing boy, yo). And thanks to Whedonesque, I have found friends all around the world to talk about the shows and about so much, much more. And thanks to Whedonesque and JaneEsp's blog, I know so much more about what good writing means. It has helped me gain confidence to write, not as "a writer," but just to express myself, which has really helped me gain confidence, period. :-)

There's been so many days where life has just taken one big dump on me, my friends, my family, my world. When those times are here, sometimes I can manage to find one small thing that doesn't suck, and tell myself, "It's not much, but it's enough." Joss has helped me appreciate the importance of those one-small-things, and that it's OK to let people know my thoughts and feelings, like The Purple One did himself in the big truth thread the other day.

As our UK Whedonesquers say, cheers, Joss. You are an inspiration to me, and you have made me laugh/cry/feel as well. I am glad to be contractually obligated to love everything you write. You go, boy! ;-)

billz | October 11, 12:10 CET

Wow - this thread made me all weepy - never a good thing before work!

I was lucky enough to meet Joss last year, and of course the incredibly moving and witty speech I had planned to give was curtailed by the fact Nathan Fillion was Right. There. waiting for me (oh yeah, love the sound of that), and a million people behind me going 'Get on with it!'. So sadly, when I got there, I just said 'my camera broke' because it had.

Nathan was still waiting and, dammit, I had to make a choice. So I said, actually, I wanted to speak to Joss. And all I had time to say was Thank you.

If I had more time now, I would say thanks for giving me strength, and purpose. Like others have said, I'm not religious, but the Joss 'verse provides all the guidance I could want. My work is to help women who have been abused, and Angels speech in Epiphany ( and various others - Buffy in Amends for example) pretty much sums up why I do this (even though it was written by Tim Minear - like Kiba said, group effort) and gives me strength to go out there and get empowerin'!

'If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. What we do, now, today...I wanna help because I don't think people should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world.'

lone fashionable wolf | October 11, 12:12 CET

Really nice sentiments one and all. Hopefully seeing the positive, life-changing effect his work's had on so many people will have had a positive effect on Big Purple.

At risk of being a bit sappy, does anyone else think this post came along at just the right time ? Couple of fairly fraught threads all laid to rest with a wee reminder of why we're all here. Almost makes you wonder about a guiding (orange ?) hand ;).

Saje | October 11, 12:45 CET

My Whedon addiction started with Firefly, which I heard about via some internet forum I visited. Over here in Sweden, most people haven't even heard about Firefly, since we often get only the successful shows. Sometimes we get smaller shows as part of a network package deal, but they mostly air those shows in the middle of the night...

Anyway, I checked it out and was almost immediately hooked. My girlfriend at the time and I had a Firefly marathon over a weekend and we both loved it to bits!

Me and my girlfriend broke up just before christmas a year ago, and I dived right into a depression, which lasted throughout spring. I decided to also check out Buffy, because some friends always talked about it. Said and done, I started and very shortly lived and breathed Buffy. At the beginning I was totally unspoiled, so I gasped when Buffy sent Angel to hell, laughed my ass off during "Hush", and cried when her mother died. Buffy and Angel really got me through some hard times. Now, I'm also in touch with other Swedish Buffy fans, talking about tv, and life in general.

I really connected with the show, because it's intelligent, funny, moving and sometimes scary. And also because I've always been attracted to strong, funny and smart women, and haven't really felt at home with the high on testosterone men's culture. Also, I feel closer to my friends than to my family, just like Buffy.

So, thank you Joss :)

ps. Very nice reading in this thread
ps2. I looooved Serenity too, and Joss' Xmen comics :)

Lucidmind | October 11, 12:59 CET

I try not to leave fingerprints but in this case....

Simon | October 11, 14:23 CET

Cheers, Simon! :-)

billz | October 11, 14:40 CET

Yep. Ditto.

I don't really think I could add too much to what has already been said. I do know that, once the 'verse became a part of my life, everything looked/seemed a lot better than it had in a long, long time.

What Joss has said about family was exactly what I grew up with. Half of my family had no genetic connection to me at all, but were family all the same, mostly closer than blood kin because the affinity was greater and those people deliberately sought out. I still can't think of anyone besides my own son that I would rather spend time with than my family-who-aren't-really-kin. So when I lost of a few of them, things were not exactly good for a while.

But then I found the 'verse and was so enriched by the shows, the humor, the great writing, the characters you love (even when you get massively ticked at them), the Whedonesquers, just all of it, that all the bad stuff got put in perspective. And I relearned how to laugh. A lot.

Thanks, Joss. I heart you.

SangChaud | October 11, 15:18 CET

Subtle, Simon, very subtle.

I wish this hadn't been crowded off the front page so soon. This thread deserves to be longer, at least, than the Go Fug Yourself one. Joss, I hate to say this, but maybe you should pose nude.

Pointy | October 11, 19:11 CET

Pointy: "This thread deserves to be longer, at least, than the Go Fug Yourself one. Joss, I hate to say this, but maybe you should pose nude."

Since we would be contractually obligated to love it, I'm hoping that it wouldn't be airbrushed. Joss, the way we like him, and by the grace of the PTB, human and mercifully unedited.

QuoterGal | October 11, 21:27 CET

Any chance this thread could be moved back to the top spot of the main page for a week or so? It would be a nice tribute for Joss, not that he isn't being tributed and heralded in a bazillion squares, bazaars, and other venues. But, it's Whedonesque.

Tonya J | October 11, 22:52 CET

Might it be appropriate under "the sitch" on the front page, with some title like, Latest Love Thread? I think people might like to add to it, if they think it will be read, and it is kind of a group reply to his last post.

Pointy | October 12, 00:05 CET

zeitgeist - deja vu, much? ;D

Willowy | October 12, 05:22 CET

Etymologically (could there be a worse word with which to begin a post? A human sentence?) the word “educate” is derived in part from the Latin educere (“to lead forth”), which is also the root of “educe” (“To bring out, elicit, develop, from a condition of latent, rudimentary, or merely potential existence,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary, which exists, like Inigo Montoya, to remind me that so many words do not mean what I think they mean).

Too often, education is considered merely a matter of the head, when it is most profoundly a matter of the heart. Look at the potential you have awakened in your fans!
In Numfar PTB, to find and create his family;
In madmolly, to make new friends;
In Saje & QuoterGal, to appreciate TV writers and characters;
In Andy Dufresne & MySerenity & GVH & Kessie & Lady Brick, to find their voices as writers;
In Lioness, to discover that she is “that type of person. A take charge person. A speak to a lot of strangers person;”
In lone fashionable wolf, strength and purpose;
In billz, to “find one small thing that doesn’t suck;”
In gossi, to see what he otherwise might not see;
In EvilFirePixie8, to find her calling and preserve her sanity;
In Tonya J & Lucidmind, to get through deep depression;
In samatwitch, to live life again;
In joni to grieve;
In Kiba, to live;
And in bookworm and me: to read Dickens in English, which is impressive, at least if you’re bookworm.
And in all of us, the chance to love the characters and stories that you’ve created in your great, breaking ’art. Be proud! Your sainted mother is.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-14 06:44 ]

Pointy | October 12, 09:14 CET

Thank you, Pointy. That brings a symmetry, a rounding-out to the thread, so that if it can't go under "the sitch" on the front page or something like that, the thread at least has a lovely sense of closure.

As we say here, "Mahalo." (Hawaiian for "thank you.")

SangChaud | October 12, 09:36 CET

Your graciousness is heartwarming, SangChaud. I love it here!

Pointy | October 12, 11:05 CET

Well, Merciful PTB, Pointy, I was really trying hard all day not to cry (dunno why, but sometimes we humans do try not to) and you just blew that out of the water. I would point out that I believe that almost all of the stuff that the whole list learned, is true of me, as well. (I may have been born a "take charge" sorta person, or it may have been thrust upon me. But otherwise, "yea, verrily, yea" to pretty much all.)

Pointy, if it were possible to love you more, this would have done it, but this and other posts -- some very recent -- have already pushed me over to max. And of course, always, my undying love, admiration & contractual obligation to His Royal Purple Postage, without whom we would, at the very least, not be here talking.

(I wish that I could have left the sign-off at Pointy's last (I agree, Hot-Blooded,) but apparently, that is not possible for me. And Pointy, if you had your email address in your profile, you would have long ago received my personal heartfelt admiration by e-express.)

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2006-10-12 11:02 ]

QuoterGal | October 12, 12:17 CET

Thanks to you, QuoterGal this thread is officially longer than the Go Fug Yourself one. Thank you very much for that (and the other stuff).

;-)

Pointy | October 12, 18:52 CET

Pointy | October 13, 09:19 CET

Hey, Pointy, take QuoterGal's hint and update your profile with your email address!

And I just noticed that Saje seems to like your "Dickens' filthy bits" as much as I. Thanks for it all, Pointy. And enjoy the rest of Oliver Twist!

SangChaud | October 13, 11:53 CET

More than you'll ever know, sister ;)

zeitgeist | October 13, 23:14 CET

Joss, you're more than just my favorite writer/director. You're my chick magnet.

;-)

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-17 06:17 ]

Pointy | October 14, 09:12 CET

Pointy | October 15, 11:05 CET

The sacrificial image of Ripley that closes Alien³ (tonight's exercise video) is beautiful, but do the filmmakers really want me to believe that she would jeopardize the lives of everyone in the prison colony by withholding information about the alien until nearly an hour into the film, after she had seen the devastation wrought by the company's withholding of information about said critter in the first two movies? Also, seemed to me that Dillon was the hero of Alien³ and Ripley did a little character regression.

Thing I'd love to see: "The Foul Papers of Joss Whedon." Complete with your original scripts for Alien: Resurrection (tomorrow night's exercise video), the original Buffy screenplay, and didn't you have an Iron Man? All of it far too good to waste. This I know.

ETA The whole reason I watched Alien³ was that you wrote it was one of the inspirations for "The Gift," which always moves me to Spike-like tears, even before the Missus died, but especially after, so much so that I cannot even listen to the theme music on the "Once More With Feeling" CD. That whole profoundly moving thing? That's the heart of you, Bold Purple Dude.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-16 05:33 ]

ETA: And that Aristotlean cathartic thing, you do that. You're not the kind of scribe to leave us mired in life's crapulence. Tnx.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-16 22:40 ]

Pointy | October 16, 07:11 CET

Oof. Suffice it to say that between your final draft and the actual shooting there was a thorough, far-reaching and ultimately successful process of ensuckening . There was one line that made me think, Joss Whedon wrote that. When Call asks the Ripley Clone why they're keeping her alive, and she replies, "I'm the latest thing." Kind of goes along with the theme of the commodification of people that I imagine I see in your work.

Frankly, I see no parallels between the crews of Serenity and the Betty. None. Not even Johner/Jayne. Beefy, rude and not so bright are characteristics, not character.

The scene when Ripley sees clones 1 though 7 was genuinely horrifying, and the buildup from 1 to 7 was good. And silent -- I believe that is called pure cinema. Having Ripley Clone 8 kill Ripley Clone 7? That I think was you. I wonder whether you were setting up Ripley Clone 8 for some sort of self-sacrifice, since in this scene she killed herself to rescue herself.

I loved the performances by Sigourney Weaver and Winona Ryder. Ripley 8 was a whole new character, very distinct from the original, and, as you have often pointed out, there's just something about Winona Ryder expressing physical revulsion at herself.

Alien: Resurrection was much better than Alien³. It kept the adrenaline pumping through my elliptical machine routine which, by the by, is very easy on the knees.

In conclusion, I can't recall ever seeing an opening credit sequence that gross. And when it says it was written by you? A damn lie.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-22 06:14 ]

Pointy | October 17, 07:09 CET

Good grief, Pointy! I didn't see any of the sequels to Alien 'cause the first one scared me silly. But what you're describing sounds positively Byzantine!

And I like that you're still posting to this thread. . . .

SangChaud | October 17, 08:35 CET

This thread is funny, heartbreaking, smart, interesting, and everything we love about Whedon. I hope it goes on and on...

silver81 | October 17, 09:04 CET

Thank you for the encouragement, SangChaud. If I recall correctly, and I don't usually, you write? Anything I can see online? I can't promise to read it soon, but I would like to read it sometime. Deadlines and I are of late not close. (And I hope I'm not as confused as usual :)

I like the long, personal posts on this thread silver81 and hope others will tell their stories. I think that a writer's relationship with his audience (especially a writer of serial narratives -- and especially one who tries to write so the audience experiences what the characters experience) is probably one of the most important relationships in his life, but also a very nebulous, hard to define one. (One more especially -- since he no longer has the week-to-week feedback on shows like he had when he could log onto The Bronze.) So I think it might hearten Genius Dude now and then to be reminded why and how bunches of his readers love his stuff. I mean, oeuvre.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-17 19:04 ]

Pointy | October 17, 09:25 CET

Hi, Pointy! Was hoping I'd run into you here! I've been out of commission recently. Earthquakes & all. . . Nice to be "back in The Black"!! For a while there, I was just in the dark!

Anyway, thanks for the inquiry about the writing (mine, specifically). There's nothing available currently, though I'm hoping a few months down the line to have a website, at which time I'll try to eventually get something up. But just when I think I've cleared my schedule to do stuff like this (including the writing part!), stuff happens. But I will let you know. It's kind of you to inquire! And, as you, erm, Pointy-ed out:



Word.

SangChaud | October 18, 08:58 CET

I'm glad your professor, Jeanine Basinger, did the It's a Wonderful Life book, not only because it gives me an excuse to quote from a New York Review of Books article on a new Jimmy Stewart bio, but because I'm in the camp that sees the Frank Capra movie as an invisible masterpiece -- like Citizen Kane in its sweep and artistry, but so much better.

It's a Wonderful Life is like the Bible, so familiar that people don't notice how strange it is. Phoebe on Friends takes issue with the title after seeing the kid get beaten 'til his ear bleeds. In this heartwarming holiday classic. And talk about genre splicing. Capra-noir? Plus it causes Aristotle to appear foolish by making deus ex machina really work. But, with due apologies to QuoterGal, it's quoting time. From Geoffrey O'Brien's review of Marc Eliot's Jimmy Stewart: A Biography


Now, I would have assumed that this movie was a major reference point for you if you had ever once mentioned it in an interview. Because it is both harrowing and comic, playful and tragic, fantastical and realistic, and so on through the opposites . . . and the scene where George Bailey is about to end his life out of blurred motives of self-sacrifice and self-destruction?

Anyway, I was not a film major, but in college I read every book on Capra I could find in our well-stocked libraries and saw all the movies, and I love Buffy like that, but even more. Among your many gifts, you communicate the extremity of the every day. And if you are so dastardly in Buffy Season 8 as to get our hero preggers by the Immortal (when I want her just to have some post-apocalyptic fun in Europe) and turn her into Buffy the Unwed Mother before her time and explore all the scary mythological stuff having to do with parenthood, then . . . I trust you to do it great. I'll still hate it, but I'll buy every issue as soon as it appears and I am certain I will love it. And so on through the opposites, I shall deem it a privilege to tag along.

PS Sarah Michelle Gellar=Jimmy Stewart. She can communicate any experience of life and make it look like she's doing nothing.

ETA SangChaud, your post was funny and scary. I hope the earthquakes did no more damage to you than temporary darkness? Looking foward to your web site!

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-18 07:58 ]

Pointy | October 18, 09:26 CET

I love that this thread still lives. It's a combo let-us-continue-to-praise-Joss & small Chautauqua meet-up.

Hope Joss checks back on this thread, and notices other such threads that crop up, like this one -- 'cause we may bemoan his character-slaughter, but it's only because we became so attached to the folks he created in the first place.

(Hot-Blooded, I wondered if you fared-thee-well in the recent earthquake -- I'm glad to hear that you are all good. No power meant no internet connection, so I'm glad you're back... And hey, Pointy, such goings-on.)

ETA: Pointy, we posted at the exact same time, so I haven't even read your latest...

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2006-10-18 07:33 ]

QuoterGal | October 18, 09:32 CET

Pointy, I remember when I first saw Buffy Season Three's "The Wish" I thought, "Oh, this is Joss's It's a Wonderful Life." (I know Marti Noxon wrote it, but I'm sure Joss is all over it.)

I did a search on "It's a Wonderful Life" and "Joss Whedon" and found a Buffy essay by another professor of Joss's at Wesleyan -- Joseph W. Reed, who rather compares the episode "Amends" with the movie, instead.

IAWL -- I've spent my own obsessive hours reading about it. But you simply must check out this 30-second bunny version of IAWL, by angry aliens.

Anya would hate it.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2006-10-27 14:04 ]

QuoterGal | October 18, 09:59 CET

Still rhapsodizing about SMG's nose, Pointy? (That was you, wasn't it?) (Or was it jaynelovesvera?) (Has anyone heard from jlv? Kinda worried. . . .) And I like the comparison w/SMG and Jimmy Stewart. I love Jimmy Stewart. He made it all look so easy, didn't he? Plus? IAWL = fantastic film. I've probably seen it 20-30 times. Sorta like some of my favorite 'verse episodes. . . .

And hi, QG! I like the Chautauqua comparison.

I, too, hope Joss somehow sees this thread in its entirety.

It's nice to be back, believe me. No electricity = no running water (no toilets, either!), no elevators, no phones, and, dammit, no internet!!! And the prequel to that was massive rockin' and rollin' (I live in a highrise, and that puppy was takin' hula lessons!!) Scarier than any Alien(s) movie by a long shot!!! But the bottom line--a positive one--is that there were no serious injuries after a 6.7 earthquake and a 6.0 aftershock. Borderline miraculous, thank TPTB!

Okay, wandered into way, way OT territory there. Apologies. Reaction is setting in, I guess. And thank youse guys for the thoughts.

I'm game for trying to "meet up" here periodically. I really like the whole Chautauqua idea, and enjoy re-reading the earlier parts of the thread when I revisit to check out any new stuff.

Okay. TTF&N. Also aloha pumehana. Take care, y'all.

SangChaud | October 18, 12:22 CET

Oh. And re:



What scares me? I get it. I'm pretty sure I get it, anyway. ;^}

Cheers.

SangChaud | October 18, 12:28 CET

Brief jaynelovesvera update: He has tests scheduled for next week, and he has left the black for (what did Marti Noxon call them?) artistic differences.

In words that echo from the conclusion of the immortal non-sci fi western:

“Jayne! (Jayne!) (Jayne!) Come back! (Come back!) (Come back!)"

Very glad to hear there were no serious injuries, SangChaud, and your post Very Funny/Very Scary! (Pardon my obscurity -- I've tried to meet deadlines, but I keep showing up late, after they've left. And that was me on SMG's nose.)

Thank you for the Reed reading, QuoterGal, I simply must read Reed. :)

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-19 01:48 ]

Pointy | October 18, 18:02 CET

Scribe, if fan reaction to character deaths ever gets you down, just remember how much grief Shakespeare got for them.

ETA The critical reaction to the death of Little Nell:

"I hate you, Charles Dickens!"

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-19 06:33 ]

Pointy | October 19, 08:18 CET

Series idea

Pointy | October 19, 08:29 CET

Thank you, Pointy. I was worried about jlv, 'cause I thought he was having the tests about now, and I didn't see him.

As to obfuscation/clarification ("I've tried to meet deadlines, but I keep showing up late, after they've left"), I get it. I really do. Deadlines and SangChaud are non-mixy things, too.

And "that was me on SMG's nose." Did you fit??!! Are you not just spritely but, in fact, an actual sprite?

Okay. I'll cease & desist. For now.

Also, speaking of deadlines, I gotta go meet one, un-mixy or not, so I'm just going to mention Ron Rosenbaum's book. I haven't gotten a chance to do much more than graze through it, but I really want to get into it. I read the original article in The New Yorker that prompted him to write the book. I even saved the article & came across it again about a day or so before I saw your mention of it here. I'm enjoying the humor of the book. TTF&N.

SangChaud | October 19, 08:52 CET

Pointy | October 20, 07:20 CET

Pointy, is this quote in reference to Rosenbaum's peak experience (see Maslow) while watching A Midsummer Night's Dream and his subsequent explorations of/ruminations about Bottom's dream and bottomlessness, etc.? Regardless of the/any reference, it is extremely interesting and thought-provoking. And I thank you for that, as my brain thoughts oft need provoking or at least prodding.

So all this helps me refine my "To Do" list for the weekend: Laundry and Shakespeare Wars!!

Wish I had some quotes, à la QuoterGal, (and Pointy, for that matter!) to quote back atcha, but, prodded or not, the brain thoughts are proving extremely recalcitrant. . . .

SangChaud | October 20, 08:48 CET

Perhaps, SangChaud, it was a reference to the peak Bottom experience with which Rosenbaum begins his book, but I can't say with certainty yet, as I started with the Hamlet chapter (2) and proceeded to the King Lear chapter (4), so it may be quite some time before I reach chapter 1. Only then shall I be able to measure the appropriateness of your my reference.

(A Midsummer Night’s Dream=Mrs. Pointy’s favorite Shakespeare. Mendelssohn wrote our Wedding March too. I hope you enjoy Shakespeare Wars, especially the climactic space battle.)

Which leads logically to the next topic on our outline: Structural Parallels Between Hamlet Act 2, Scene 2—The Pyrrhus Speech and Becoming, Part One Act I, Scene 2—The Fishstick Confrontation.

More on the morrow.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-22 03:59 ]

Pointy | October 21, 10:24 CET

Ah.



"The morrow and the morrow and the morrow creeps in this petty pace. . . " No, wait. Yeah. The morrow will have to do. Me brain's fried. And it sounds like you're reading Rosenbaum the way I am: all over the map. I'll probably wind up having read every word in the book and still have no idea how he got from Point A to Point Z. But where's the space battle? And is Rosenbaum playing the part of the unreliable narrator in it?? Or did I mean unreliable navigator? And what's a "peak Bottom"? ;^}

Okay. Before I get any sillier, I will call a halt. And, on the morrow, answers. And, possibly, fishsticks. Bye.

SangChaud | October 21, 13:23 CET

SangChaud, I can't recall the last book I read in order. Wait--oh, yeah, Great Expectations. But you know what I mean.

Looks like QuoterGal beat me to the pseudo-scholarly Shakespearean punch.

But I'm serious about the Pyrrhus/Fishsticks parallels. How scary is that?

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-21 18:37 ]

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-21 18:38 ]

Pointy | October 21, 20:15 CET

SangChaud, I know a little re: fried brains. Of late I’m testing a new energy drink called “sleep.” You might like it. ;-)

Like millions of people who watched “Becoming, Part One” on May 12, 1998 and saw Xander reenact the previous night’s vampire slaying using two fish sticks and a toothpick, I did not slap my forehead, point at the TV and shout, “The Pyrrhus speech in Hamlet!”

But like more than zero readers of James Shapiro’s A Year in the Life of William Shakespeare, I did scribble, “Like the French fry battle in Becoming Pt II,” (revised following additional research to “Like the fish stick battle in Becoming Part One”) in the margins of my paperback after reading this:



Hamlet recites part of the speech from memory:



The Pyrrhus speech highlights what kind of revenge stroy Shakespeare’s Hamlet is not. It’s not Saxo’s, for example, in which the Danish prince ascends to the throne after killing his father’s killer and goes on to further adventures. Revenge doesn’t work in Shakespeare’s play, and takes its time not working, and is not quite sure how it feels about that, and wants to discuss it. And that ambivalence and complexity are part of the play’s greatness.

Likewise, I think The Scribe is setting up how the climactic battle of “Becoming Part Two” is not gonna be when he has Xander, holding two fish sticks, one of them armed with a toothpick, act out this scene:



If the Pyrrhus speech caricatures the attitude of a conventional revenge play, Xander’s dramatic reenactment does the same regarding the climax of a conventional vampire movie: The hero kills the monster and the world is saved.

It’s not going to be that simple, of course. Buffy will defeat the monster, but only after the monster is transformed back into a hero. By sending him to hell she will put herself through hell. She will save the world by destroying her own.

The Scribe foreshadows the coming complexity through Oz’s sly noting of Xander’s lack thereof.



I’m not kidding. I think the fish stick battle has structural significance, and it’s intentional. It prepares the audience to not be satisfied with a conventional climax, to expect and want something more. It may not be based specifically on the Pyrrhus speech, but wouldn’t it be fun if it was?

Anyway, subtle stuff like this does not go unappreciated, Scribe. Even if I don’t quite get it, I sense it, and so do the rest of the members of your huge audience. Like Bono sings, “What you don’t know you can feel it somehow.”

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-28 22:25 ]

Pointy | October 22, 08:13 CET

I've been spending too much time on the black, so today I decided to see a museum exhibit of "the earliest biblical artifacts in existence, including pages and fragments written in Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac, Armenian, Ethiopian and Coptic," and before I knew it I was thoroughly absorbed in the ongoing scholarly project of distinguishing canonical texts from fanfic.

Pointy | October 23, 07:58 CET

It is great to hear that you are having a blast writing the Buffy comics, Scribe, and fitting and proper too. And, I say with the hope that you will not be even slightly inclined to disagree, the blast-having is well-deserved. Buffy is the child of your heart, and a credit to its lumpy, lopsided parent.

Today's post is brought to you by the concept of genre-busting. Now, I know you didn't invent it, but you enunciated it at an essential time in my writing career. I was (and am still) writing a non-fiction book about a bad president. Structure, my nemesis and fascination, eluded me. I thought, try the Bad King genre Shakespeare perfected, and I'm glad I looked there, but it did not work for me. I came up with loads of structures, many, many drafts, but they were all wrong.

Then I listened to your commentary on "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and had my equivalent of the "Ah hah!" moment. For me, it's more like an "Ohhhhh" moment -- the sudden perception that is not so much sudden as long-awaited and perhaps tardy. But when you talked about busting genres, about how the audience experienced in viewing horror movies knows how a scene would go, and about your mission statement being "Nothing Is As It Seems," something clicked, or made a dull thumping noise muffled by rust.

Somehow, the thought that my protagonist's story was busting the genre of the heroic president freed my mind and with it, my fingers. I suddenly knew kind of what I was doing. And I wrote a short version of my story that got the scholars in my field excited, which was very heartening and not at all bad for the career. And the work on the long form goes well, with this one slow-mo-ment of truth leading to lots of little ones. In particular, it brought the funniness, which was sorely missing from earlier drafts.

Anyway, I give the credit to you, not so much for formulating the idea, but in showing me how it was done in Buffy and then telling me what it was you were doing in the commentary. Sometimes people teach just by being themselves. Actually, the most important way people teach is by being themselves.

Thanks, Scribe!

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-10-28 22:23 ]

Pointy |