Argh, I am so sick of hearing good things about Lost. I really did not see what all the fuss was about.

[ edited by Senor Pants on 2006-06-03 09:36 ]

Senor Pants | June 03, 11:35 CET

I'm sick of seeing the piece of crap that is Lost continually be nominated for these awards. Especially when they fail to nominate Battlestar Galactica and Veronica Mars.

Fear the Puppet | June 03, 11:53 CET

Lost is a great show. It is subtle and it is complicated. It deserves its nominations even though other shows may also deserve kudos.

TamaraC | June 03, 13:11 CET

You know if you don't like a show, tell us why rather than resorting to "I'm (so) sick" comments. Is it the characterisation, the plots, format etc that you don't like?

Simon | June 03, 14:50 CET

I like LOST and I'm glad that a show that is different than the norm is finally being recognized by mainstream.

spikeylover | June 03, 15:25 CET

Yes, let's do please try to be constructive.

zeitgeist | June 03, 16:24 CET

Ah how Lost sucks let me count the ways...

The characters are idiots - Plenty of examples but look no further than the finale and Jack's brilliant plan to continue on their expedition even when he knew Michael was leading them into a trap and had killed Libby and AnaL.

The plots are dropped and/or contradict eachother.

The writing lacks wit and/or humor (unless you count Sawyer's annoying nickname habit which is funny I guess in its ridiculousness)

It's the definition of psuedointellectual - Using names like Locke and Rousseau but having cookie-cutter plots that were better executed on a soap operas

The Demon and Curse (TWOP's nickname for Damon Lindeloff and Carlton Cuse) are idiots. They said they killed off Shannon because she was too young to have an interesting life story. What kind of B.S. is that? They're professional TV writers and they can't think up a story for a rich, snobby 20 something?

The flashbacks are a defective crutch. Demon and Curse think they need them and so they rely on them to pad out their slow plotting structure but really they hold the show back from actually developing the characters. Past events may have shaped who these people are but you know what? These characters aren't JFK or some notable figure. What's interesting now is not how Sawyer's first cousin was Jack's roommate's former badminton partner or Kate got that small imperceptible scar on her foot, it's how these characters are react and are changed to what's happening around them.

As long as they can flashback to some event in these characters lives to give the character end of the story (instead of actually having it in the present), the characters won't develop and show will be forever stuck in this stasis mode. It's been 2 years and we're still "introducing" the characters--something that should have been completed by the first half of season 1.

There's lots more and I could go on for a much longer time, but this is a Buffyverse board not a Lost board. If you're looking for even more arguments against Lost the best place to go is the Bitterness Fiesta on the TWoP forums for Lost.

foreverwes | June 03, 17:01 CET

I would never call the TWOP forums the best place to go for *anything*. ;-)

I happen to love "Lost" and call me a pseudointellectual, but - for a change- having a show that doesn't feed me every plot point and leaves me guessing week after week rather than wrapping things up neatly is a refreshing change of pace from the pablum of other shows I can't bear to watch *cough Veronica Mars cough*.

OzLady | June 03, 17:10 CET

Woah, really? You find VM to be pablum and too simplistic? Really?

woah.

(Personally, I'm starting to think that "Lost" has no secret behind it, and that the various mysteries are not going to be explained ever... and that it is going to disappoint and annoy eventually, a la "X-Files." I really don't feel that way about "Veronica Mars.")

Septimus | June 03, 17:36 CET

They've been on the island for what? 40 days? I'd be more annoyed if they started rushing character development for the sake of it. It's a go slow show.



I'd prefer it if we didn't have to resort to name calling.

Simon | June 03, 18:37 CET

Lost may never answer the questions of it's mysteries but that doesn't take from the quality of the show now. A lot of people aren't happy with what Spike and other post "The Body" issues did to the mythology of the Buffyverse but I bet even they would say that doesn't take away from the quality of the show before the deconstruction of the myth and stepping into the realism of season 5-7.

beckyboo | June 03, 22:16 CET

Fine. foreverwes, covered most of it, not in depth but the basic points are spot on.
beckyboo, I couldnt care less about the answers to the mysteries, every time I say I hate Lost people expect that to be the reason....It's not, not at all. it's pretty much everything else, the poor pacing, bad bad bad bad bad characterisation/character development, terrible dialogue, forgotten plot points, dumb "arcs" and plain annoying "characters."

Lost is barely subtle, it hammers pretty much every "message" or theme into you with a five tonne sledge hammer. And then it attempts to call itself intelligent when it throws around random religious imagery and biblical allusions....i mean seriously? And then people take it all in as something amazing, they pick the mystery to pieces, when it's quite obvious the writers are randomly throwing around clues to distract the audience from the fact THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING.

People call them daring when they kill of characters, they arent. It's because these "characters" recieved DUI's or were too young for them to create interesting (HAH) flashbacks, or for the main reason; they want to add even more characters into the mix because they are afraid they wont be able to come up with more of those character developing (total sarcasm) flashbacks. The show really doesnt need any more characters...how many are there anyway? Too many.

Just never call lost a character driven shows, cos it's not. NOT.

And as foreverwes pointed out the best place to go to find in depth reasons for why Lost suck so so much, check out the Lost Bitterness Fiesta at TWoP. Comedy gold.

[ edited by Fear the Puppet on 2006-06-03 21:28 ]

Fear the Puppet | June 03, 22:34 CET

The fact that "Veronica Mars" is unnominated in all categories, including acting, is disappointing. It is one of the most involving, moving shows I've seen, and for it to remain unrecognized, just as Buffy was so often, is a shame. On the other hand, I love that Stephen Colbert is getting a nomination for best comic actor.

I fall in the middle with respect to "Lost". Without getting TOO lengthy, suffice it to say (for now) that I don't mind the random mystery hints, if done interestingly, and I don't even mind the fact that they don't have a master plan, because I'm not really looking for one. I think that the characters have POTENTIAL, but that it's rarely exploited, although sometimes the interactions are interesting. The plot usually keeps me relatively entertained, although sometimes main characters are required to act very stupid for it to occur. (I think Jack and Sayid's plan in the finale was one of the dumbest plans imaginable, for example--and Sayid should really know better.) I think that the flashbacks are becoming less and less necessary, that the number of "miracle cures" introduced recently is getting ridiculous, and that with the exception of Boone, I think that all the main character deaths in this show were bungled and wrong-headed. New characters are being used to substitute for new ideas--and then the new characters are summarily killed off.

As an aside, I think the decision to make Sun pregnant is a *really* strange one. I mean, how many seasons will she have to be pregnant for before she can deliver the child, at roughly one month a season? I don't think we know for sure what trimester she's in, but it will be quite a while at least. They're obviously going to kill off Sun or kill off the baby or have it be a miracle growth baby (or jump through time), because there's no way I can see them actually going through several years of pregnant Sun.

WilliamTheB | June 03, 23:26 CET

I agree that Lost is not a character driven show, though it claims to be. It's plot driven, and the characters are there to serve the plot, which ends up with one-dimensional characters that aren't very interesting and tend to act out of character whenever.

I have become bored with all the flashback stories, which don't really flesh out the characters. I think it worked for season one, but in season 2 they just kept telling us more of the same thing. I started to focus more on the plot than characters, and just had fun with that, not expecting too much from the show.

I like the flashbacks when they take place on the island or focus on a new character. The season 2 finale brought in a re-occuring character and did an great job in fleshing him out, making us care about him, and the actor did an oustanding job in carrying the show. This episode gave me everything I'd been wanting from the show since it began. I know now that these writers do have the talent to make a better show, but I think they've become too enamored with their own format and got stuck in a rut. They'd be better off laying off the flashback episodes so much, unless they have something new and important to say.

I don't think Lost is as worthy of the praise it gets, but it does have a lot going for it. I wouldn't call it crap or anything. I just prefer shows where characters come first, and the drama is used to service them. Battlestar Galactica is the best character driven show on the air, and Veronica Mars comes in close second.

electricspacegirl | June 03, 23:27 CET

Lost is a character driven show -- it's just that it's a character driven show that lacks good characters, which is one of the show's many problems. Apart from that, I mostly agree with Fear the Puppet.

And I really like Veronica Mars, but it's crap (more or less) compared to The Shield and Rescue Me. The Shield season 5 is probably the best season of any show I have seen (yes, better than any of Joss' shows), and it hasn't been nominated in a single category...

Johan | June 04, 00:06 CET

Dramas aside, I have to say I quite agree with their comedy nominations (given that Arrested Development won last year). It's kind of amusing that in the Individual Achievement in Comedy they have three of the Daily Show guys (current and former) in the running.

yourlibrarian | June 04, 00:18 CET

Thanks, Simon and zeitgeist, for reminding why coming here is different than TWoP. Yes, there are many funny things said there, but those are usually at the expense of someone personally -- I believe those are called "ad hominem attacks" (yes, I paid attention this year in journalism class!). I'd rather stick to what I don't like, what I do like, and if we are saying someone is not talented, at least say "not to my taste" or find other qualities that person has -- I have certainly been guilty on this board of doubting the acting abilities of Jessicas Alba & Biel when it comes to WW, but I never doubt they are more than beautiful enough to be Amazons.

That said, I certainly did not enjoy the second season of Lost the way I enjoyed the first season. I think they lost their way (no pun intended) with many of the plotlines, but even the writers realized it, from the interviews I read, which is why they blew up the hatch, to get rid of it, and showed that there are other people on the earth who can find the island, thus proving it is not "limbo," "hell" or a dream. The writers have also announced a "map" for S3: they will explore who The Others are and what they're about.

Showing the background of the characters is the entire structure of Lost, so I don't think you can call that a problem with "character development." You may not like it, but it isn't evidence that they have been slow or mistaken in introducing the characters; it's clearly what they intend to do throughout the series. I mean, how much can you say about people who are trapped on an island, even a crazy "island of mystery"? I find it interesting to see the background stories before the crash. (I just wish John Locke weren't always being victimized by that no-good father of his! John's first flashback episode was amazing, though -- although I don't know how I feel about the island providing miracle cures for paralysis and cancer, I am always interested and excited to see characters with disabilities being portrayed as fully-rounded people -- I'm tired of being invisible or an object of pity!!) ;-)

Thanks, yourlibrarian, for pointing out how "deep the bench" is on The Daily Show -- Arrested Development aside, those TDS guys and girls (Samantha Bee, yo), past and present, are the funniest on television, period! ;-)

billz | June 04, 01:05 CET

I'm not in the "Lost sucks" camp, but... It seems like a stretch for it to win tons of awards and be called "brilliant" and such. Shows like Lost and 24 are solid shows, but, any scrutiny of the logic/plot/continuity won’t hold up. When there are shows out there like The Wire (which is just a wonderful, well acted, well written, important show. Seriously, watch it, it needs viewers), The Sopranos, Deadwood, The Shield, Battlestar Galactica and to a lesser extent, shows like Veronica Mars… Eh, it just seems odd that Lost and 24 get so much praise… Though, this rant is more directed towards the Emmy voters. I'd expect similar nominations there. I’d assume most voters for major awards don’t want to go too obscure… All of those shows, outside of the The Sopranos are under five million total viewers if I recall. So, I can understand the reluctance to nominate them for big awards… But, you know, they are the best shows on television.

Dirk | June 04, 02:15 CET

The Shield and/or Big Love should be on there over Grey's Anatomy. I'd say Deadwood too, but it hasn't aired in 2006 yet. Wish Six Feet Under's fifth and final season had gotten more recognition, but I think the awards it could participate in are long past now.

I feel about the same as ElectricSpaceGirl about Lost's second season. It lost its way quite a bit (especially in the middle of the season, whereas I thought the first four or five episodes of the year--I loved the Tail survivors' ep, as one example--were very good, as were the last couple eps before the season finale), but pulled it together like crazy for the finale. A lot of folks think it brought on more questions than answers, but I felt that for once, there were way more answers. Some to questions I totally wasn't expecting to have answered this soon (why the plane came down, how, who was responsible). It's not just about the plot though, there were some decent character bits, though I'll agree that there're very few compelling folks in the story most of the time (and way too many of 'em). Lost has a great cast, it's just that the writing doesn't always showcase them favorably.

Was ready to go DVD-only for Lost (threatened that at the end of the first season as well 'cause I had issues with the overly padded finale and hated the hatch mystery), but I'm definitely sticking around for Season 3 after #2's finale, especially now that I've heard the writers have mapped it out (a little? Completely? Any bit of a plan is better than how they were reportedly doing it for Seasons 1 and 2).

Also, I was a bit disappointed to not see her in this year's ender, but I think it was probably wise to hold back Rousseau for now. There was enough going on as it was. Who knows, maybe she'll rescue folks in Season 3's opening eps and finally meet her kid. And anyone wanna take bets over whether or not Michael and Walt actually make it away? Would be nice to see someone escape the island before the show's conclusion/cancellation in whatever season that'll be.

Yes, there's a serious danger of Lost becoming another X-Files in terms of overall arc becoming convoluted/stringing viewers along mercilessly, but I'm feeling newly optimistic about it. And maybe, maybe a little anyway, I don't mind getting taken for a ride this time. Can always bail out when it gets really bad. Though I might end up being bitter over the years I did invest in the show, we'll see.

24 is sweet sweet TV crack. I wish I wasn't two years behind. Season 4 needs to come down in price first. I've cared far more about some of the folks on 24 than I have about Lost's cookie-cutters.

Kris | June 04, 06:55 CET

Wow, I'm amazed with all the Lost-hatred. Especially coming from people that appreciate good writing in television.

Lost, to me, is something of a miracle in that it is a well written, arc, genre show that is actually not in peril of cancellation. To those who say it's not character driven, I cannot understand that, it's the most character-driven show on television! And the flashbacks I really like, they are a fresh approach to television episode formats, and I like how they reveal a lot more about the characters. You really get to explore who these people are, who they were, how they change over time, and how they relate to others. None of the many MANY characters of the show are one-dimensional in the least.

And I haven't even mentioned the brilliantly unfolding mystery at the heart of the show. It may be slow moving (and aggravating when you gotta wait weeks to see what happens next), but it plays especially well on DVD (when you can marathon episodes). I love the pacing, nothing feels rushed. And I do believe that they have a plan, it may not be fully fleshed out, but they have an idea where they're going.

I feel that the quality of Lost is something all shows should aspire to, great writing, acting, and production values week to week. The fact that it gets amazing ratings I think will give a boost to scripted arc dramas later (hopefully not attempts at clones, but actual unique shows).

Anyway, just had to speak up when I heard all these detractors. Are we even watching the same show?? And can you expect everything to be absolutely perfect? Try writing your own tv show! Even the Whedon-verse shows weren't perfect (though some of the best stuff to ever grace the tube).

There. I love LOST, and I hope that you all can be a bit more open-minded. We expect others to be open-minded about Buffy, when in turn not being the same way for other shows? That seems a mite hypocritical to me...

AnotherFireflyfan | June 04, 09:02 CET

There's "open-minded," and there's realizing that a particular show just isn't for you, even after you give it a good old try. That's VM (or, say, the Sopranos) for me - I'm just not a huge fan. I can see that some would feel the same way about Lost.

However, let's tone down some of the more strident commentary here, please. There's never any need to use CAPS, and saying something is "obvious" because it happens to be your point of view doesn't make it so.

SoddingNancyTribe | June 04, 09:20 CET

If Lost wasn't a mainstream show, I bet lots of people would be complaining that such an original show isn't getting nominated for any awards.

vampire dan | June 04, 17:27 CET

Fans of BSG, The Shield, House, and Boston Legal may be happier with the Peabody Awards this year. The ceremony is tomorrow (hosted by Jon Stewart) in NYC.

yourlibrarian | June 04, 22:50 CET

Wow, great link, yourlibrarian! :-)

billz | June 05, 01:48 CET

So, I'm not getting involved in the Lost conversation, but for those who complained about the lack of nominations for Veronica Mars, scroll down a little further to LAST year's nominations. VM was indeed recognized with two nominations, one for best new show (alongside Lost) and one for Kristen Bell for individual achievement in drama. Just because VM wasn't nominated THIS year, doesn't mean the show hasn't gotten recognition as an award-worthy show.

potential | June 05, 03:32 CET

Yeah for Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart nominations!!!!

killinj | June 05, 18:33 CET

Veronica Mars seems to be the new "Buffy" of the awards. What a mistake...
But I'm so happy to see Lost in all the awards... I think I know why people like to hate the show, but for me it's being a great ride, even if I'm not getting answers (I think they're really giving them, but that's for another topic).

Angel TheVampire | June 05, 23:27 CET