That's the first time I've seen it suggested that Glenn Quinn was killed off Angel due to dissatisfaction with his performance. I thought he was great. Is this a widespread supposition?

jaynelovesvera | May 20, 04:51 CET

I loved Glenn Quinn... always assumed that his leaving was connected to his substance-abuse problems.

With that said, I thought David B. was weak/bad early on in Buffy, but got much better as time went on (I think he completely won me over with his turn as Angelus.)

rabid | May 20, 04:55 CET

I agree, rabid. He was pretty terrible at the beginning of the series ("Because I'm afraid" might be the worst line reading in the history of acting) but he really clicked when Angel went bad. Maybe he was just having more fun being evil, but he seemed to get much more comfortable very quickly, and it stuck when he came back as a good guy. By season three, he'd developed a very nice sense of comic timing. I think he's absolutely hilarious by the time "Dopplegangland" rolls around.

Edit: Oh, and I think the reference to Doyle isn't so much a comment on Quinn's acting as to Joss's willingness to kill major characters off. His point is that if Joss couldn't live with Boreanaz's acting, Angel could easily have bought it in episode 7.

[ edited by JesterInACast on 2006-05-20 03:02 ]

JesterInACast | May 20, 05:00 CET

Glenn Quinn had COMPLETELY won me over in just a few episodes. I don't think that his performances were the problem.

[ edited by spikeylover on 2006-05-20 03:03 ]

spikeylover | May 20, 05:02 CET

One argument with the article, his statement that most of the humor on Buffy was carried by Xander and Willow. Hellooo, Cordelia. There's a reason she was brought into Angel the Series. For the funny. And she was brillaint. I just caught the opening episode of Veronica Mars, (thank you rerun season), and if I had never seen Cordelia Chase, I would not have guessed that beautiful starlet Charisma Carpenter could do comedy. That woman could be the next Carole Lombard. Will somebody please write her an old-fashioned screwball comedy! Maybe that gal who produced her own Wonder Woman trailer. She seemed to have a touch of wry in her writing.

barboo | May 20, 05:23 CET

Huh, and I thought that Sarah Michelle Gellar brought the funny to Buffy too. Yes the other actors did, but so did the Buffmeister amongst the angst and killing of demons.

Kyrax | May 20, 05:37 CET

Of course, the real burning question is this....
MIMBO ? Wouldn't a male Bimbo be properly referred to as a HIMBO ?

[ edited by AncientMagicks on 2006-05-20 04:11 ]

AncientMagicks | May 20, 06:08 CET

Definitely Himbo.

And the funny was carried on Buffy by pretty much everybody. I mean, Xander had the most funny lines, but everyone was pretty much on. Except, well, Angel, until he went evil. Then he started getting funny with some of the blackest humour in the 'verse. One of my favourite lines ever, to Dru on her Valentine's Day present: "I found it in a quaint little shopgirl." And, naturally, his quips to Spike: "I'll bring you around if I ever need a really great PARKING space!" On Angel (the series) also, the humour flowed through all the characters; I was amazed in rewatching season two how many amazingly funny lines Gunn has. ("Wait--THAT was the plan? Walking real quick was the PLAN?") Okay, so Connor usually didn't carry the funny, but most characters had their moment. (As for "Firefly," "Our Mrs. Reynolds" should be studied by anyone who ever wants to make an ensemble comedy, for how completely different characters can intermingle to nonstop hilarious effect, without a note false.)

Glenn Quinn was great as Doyle; instantly likable, which is hard to pull off when he's the only character who isn't known. (Compare, for interest's sake, how quickly Doyle became likable, as opposed to, say, Elisabeth Rohm's Kate. No contest.) It's really a shame what happened, because he was clearly talented, and his character was well liked by all. I mean, Doyle the character might have been killed off anyway (I think I remember hearing somewhere that Doyle's death was planned, just at a later time...?), but we would have gotten a greater chance to know him, and give his sacrifice even more weight. Though now of course, the tragedy has the additional tinge from the real life tragedy, which is just outside my ability to deal with.

Also, I really had a hard time believing that Charisma was the same woman who played Cordy at the beginning of VM this season. To be perfectly honest, while I loved Cordy, I never was that attracted to her. But, ye Gods, Kendall was HOT. (And the glimmers of evil Kendall worked *so* much better than evil Cordy, with the possible exception of "Inside Out.") She reminded me of Cordy in the last episode, though, in her "Young love" comment to Logan and Veronica--an older version of Cordy snark.

WilliamTheB | May 20, 07:20 CET

Everyone was funny on Buffy. Not just Xander and Willow. Heck, even Dawn and Tara had their moments.

eddy | May 20, 07:28 CET

Maybe he was joking about the Glenn Quinn remark too. How soon until he writes a post to apologize to Quinn fans?

I agreed with his initial article. I thought Boreanaz' acting in the first few Buffy episodes was a bit awkward. He got better pretty quick though.



Oh, he won me over in "City Of" with his "Once upon a time there was a vampire" speech. His delivery killed me. He's an actor that's sorely missed.

[ edited by ElectricSpaceGirl on 2006-05-20 08:31 ]

electricspacegirl | May 20, 10:24 CET

The "mimbo" term comes from episode 5.12 of Seinfeld entitled The Stall.

I agree that many characters brought the funny in the Buffyverse. It was a very talented cast, comedy included.

Yefa | May 20, 10:37 CET

Once I accept that the Doyle comment was more about the killing off than the bad acting, I am totally confused about the furor. Everything he said was true! By the time Buffy-Angel got hot and heavy, David was a better actor by a mile, and switching to Angelus just accelerated his growth as an actor.

I guess the furor was raised by the kind of fans who think their idols have to be perfect. Personally I'd rather they have a few warts and quirks - makes them much more interesting!

(Atm I'm watching Bones from the 10th - no way the David of early Buffy could have played Booth in this uber-emotional war crimes episode.)

cabri | May 20, 13:27 CET

Yeah, I agree, sometimes folks can take things a bit seriously, it is just his opinion after all.

I can understand being offended by the 'Doyle' comment but I too think he meant that Joss doesn't hesitate to kill off major characters (if for no other reason than because Glenn Quinn was just pitch perfect from the first second Doyle opened his mouth, so it seems unlikely to be a talent issue). Also, since when did being dead give you total exemption from criticism ? Does this mean we now have to say Hitler and Stalin were just misunderstood ? ;).

I must confess to not being impressed by DB's acting at first though he definitely improved over time (I agree that this was mainly during his 'Angelus' phase) and got a chance to show a real flair for comedy later on. Personally, i'm not sure he has the range to really become huge but I think he's great on 'Bones' and wish him all the best.

(I was a bit less charitable when Angel finished and I heard some of his comments - out of context - about only coming back to do a big screen version, in fact, I said to a fellow fan that 'SMG has big screen in her but David Boreanaz has movie-of-the-week and infomercial written all over him, the ungrateful sod'. Not exactly my finest hour ;).

Saje | May 20, 14:18 CET

Although Angel was someone I already loved by the end of the first season, it wasn't until season 2 and Angelus that it was apparent this boy could really act.

He just gets better and better. He has a fabulous character on Bones. We get to see another side to DB and it's just as good as the dark intense side we saw on Buffy and Angel. Different but good.

cheryl | May 20, 15:51 CET

It is clear from interviews with DB himself and others who have worked with him that he takes the job of acting very seriously. He and Adam Baldwin, for instance, have worked (are still working?) with the same acting coach.

We must all remember that DB didn't train as an actor specifically and some interviews suggest that he expected to land up the other side of the camera. When he started on BtVS, his total acting experience was a short stint in summer stock, an advert or two and a bit part in Married With Children. He was damned lucky to get the part of Angel and for that he had his looks and a certain charisma to thank. Eight years working in Whedonverse with such a diverse and talented bunch of people gave him possibly the best training ground he could have found as an actor. It is to his credit that he worked bloody hard at it and made the most of his opportunity.

There are still weaknesses. He doesn't do grief particularly well yet and, as most people acknowledge, his Irish accent was wince-makingly bad. However, I did notice that by the time he got to working on Angel he frequently employed a slight Irish inflection in his voice when he went game face that was very clever and that, because slight, he got away with. Without a natural aptitude for accents, he'd need a lot of time and (good quality) coaching to get one right. That was a luxury he just didn't have in Whedonverse and they weren't always lucky in the quality of coaching they did obtain (remember Kendra?! an even more dazzlingly awful accent, totally unrecognisable as Jamaican). Marsters, I suspect, does have a natural aptitude and always had Tony Head around to model his accent on. Alexis Denisof, of course, had lived and worked for 15 years in London so had his English accent down pat.

In DB's favour is his enthusiasm to work at the craft and the fact that, quite rightly, he values theatre work as the best grounding for an actor. I'd advise him to stick with a good acting coach, try to minimise the mannerisms and try and get in some stints of theatre and radio work along the way. However he develops he shows already a far greater range than the vast majority of American actors who seem content to "be" rather than "do," just portraying a narrow range of variations of themselves.

As for his current state of buffness, he's looking damned good. He went through a porky phase on Angel which was probably partly down to increasing problems with his knee limiting his ability to exercise. Now though, he is looking good for 37 years old and who'd want him to look now the epitomy of starving actor that he was when he started as Angel in 1996?

[ edited by nemesis on 2006-05-20 18:40 ]

nemesis | May 20, 20:38 CET

I like the fact the author of the column took the time to read the fan's input, re-read his own article, obviously with an open mind, and write another column, stating his opinion more clearly.

I've always liked DB. I loved Angel from Buffy season 1 through Angel season 5. I can see many cringe-worthy moments in his acting- even while enjoying the pretty in season 1, I kept thinking, he just doesn't know what to do with his hands, does he? But I think the cringe-y moments were so obvious because he was so watchable and had such obvious charisma.

By Buffy season 2, he'd improved enormously, even before Angelus. As far as the accent goes... meh, it never really bothered me as much as those atrocious wigs!

I was shocked when people started saying he'd be the next Ziering. DB carried his show for 5 years. Ziering? Nah.

I'm enjoying Bones, though I didn't at first. Booth is evolving nicely. DB is doing a good job with the role and I like his natural style of acting- something about it reminds me of Spencer Tracy.

I think DB could make a jump to the big screen, given a good script and talented co-stars. But then again, I prefer to see him on a weekly basis.

looking | May 20, 21:07 CET

Leading your second television series in nothing to sneeze at and I can see him make the jump to Big screen as well.

Aside from all the acting goodness, he is certainly easy on the eyes.

cheryl | May 20, 21:14 CET

I remember how pissed I was that Doyle was killed off and replaced by Wesley!! I was not overly impressed by Wesley on BtVS and just thought of him mostly for humor. I thought there was no way his character could fill the hole that losing Doyle had made. Boy was I wrong.

Firefly Flanatic | May 21, 06:31 CET

I was also upset when Doyle was killed and Wesley appeared. I though "oh Wesley is replacing Doyle, rats I really liked Doyle...Wesley was never that interesting". Of course over the episode I grew to enjoy Wesley. He changed so much and AD was wonderful to watch!

When Joss gives us a character that we like, then kills them, it is very hard for the "new" character coming in. When Joss killed Jenny Calendar, I was really upset, but he never replaced her with another character. I felt very much that Wesley was a replacement for Doyle, and I also thought there was no way Wes could do it, it's nice to be wrong... sometimes!

Passion | May 21, 15:47 CET